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[Rubicon] Rapid Missile Launchers - v2

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Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#2081 - 2013-11-25 00:22:50 UTC
For a weapon system mounted on a larger hull having a smaller clip size is kind of silly. The firing rate of a missile launcher has *nothing* to do with the barrels. You could technically deploy your entire magazine in one volley, and I think that should be an option.

Obviously expending 18/23 charges in a couple of seconds sounds hilariously OP, until you're out of ammo. And even then there's no guarantee of a kill since your total volley damage is still only 28k~~ for RLML and and some 40k for RHML.. which may get speed tanked down.

Just a thought.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2082 - 2013-11-25 00:46:35 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
For a weapon system mounted on a larger hull having a smaller clip size is kind of silly. The firing rate of a missile launcher has *nothing* to do with the barrels. You could technically deploy your entire magazine in one volley, and I think that should be an option.

Obviously expending 18/23 charges in a couple of seconds sounds hilariously OP, until you're out of ammo. And even then there's no guarantee of a kill since your total volley damage is still only 28k~~ for RLML and and some 40k for RHML.. which may get speed tanked down.

Just a thought.

Well, the irony is that with the exception of cruise missile and torpedo launchers - all the missile systems feature multiple "pods", ie:

• Rockets: 17 pods per launcher
• Light Missiles: 8 pods per launcher
• Heavy Missiles: 12 pods per launcher
• Rapid Light Missiles: 12 pods per launcher
• Heavy Assault Missiles: 16 pods per launcher
• Rapid Heavy Missiles: 10 pods per launcher

It could be argued that each shot is actually a small cluster (or volley) of missiles. I suspect server mechanics preclude having that many missiles in flight (although it would be visually entertaining).

Faster rate of fire for RLML and RHML? Sure, I'm game.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2083 - 2013-11-25 00:55:16 UTC
I still want to know exactly whom thought this was a good idea.

Everyone I've heard talk about it hates the reload and is busy trying to sell hulls.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2084 - 2013-11-25 00:56:25 UTC
Onictus wrote:
I still want to know exactly whom thought this was a good idea.
Everyone I've heard talk about it hates the reload and is busy trying to sell hulls.

Scroll back to some of the earliest posts. There's a short list...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2085 - 2013-11-25 01:06:06 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Onictus wrote:
I still want to know exactly whom thought this was a good idea.
Everyone I've heard talk about it hates the reload and is busy trying to sell hulls.

Scroll back to some of the earliest posts. There's a short list...



Yeah Fozzie, and whatever echochamber he lives in at work.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#2086 - 2013-11-25 01:08:46 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
For a weapon system mounted on a larger hull having a smaller clip size is kind of silly. The firing rate of a missile launcher has *nothing* to do with the barrels. You could technically deploy your entire magazine in one volley, and I think that should be an option.

Obviously expending 18/23 charges in a couple of seconds sounds hilariously OP, until you're out of ammo. And even then there's no guarantee of a kill since your total volley damage is still only 28k~~ for RLML and and some 40k for RHML.. which may get speed tanked down.

Just a thought.

I kinda like that idea. Press F1, every single missile loaded fires at the same time and then you go into a long reload. I could see a 40 second reload being justified then. Or even 50seconds.
Overheating the launchers reduces the reload time, with the accompanying heat damage.
Maybe some increased fitting reqs so it doesn't go too far, but still allowing enough launchers to be fit to be a threat.
Could be an actually interesting new play tactic.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2087 - 2013-11-25 01:33:54 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
I kinda like that idea. Press F1, every single missile loaded fires at the same time and then you go into a long reload.

...While you warp out. Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#2088 - 2013-11-25 01:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
I kinda like that idea. Press F1, every single missile loaded fires at the same time and then you go into a long reload.

...While you warp out. Lol

But wouldn't it be more of a useful mechanic than the half-baked idea we're stuck with now?
Obviously not a replacement module, but a niche, secondary module. 1 for lights and 1 for mediums and 1 for large.

Edit: not useful for PVE but it doesn't effect the preexisting modules either.
Lets you have the option to have someone fit the new launcher and warp in at key points to break a difficult tank or a small gang of the to maybe turn the tide.
CarbonFury
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2089 - 2013-11-25 02:09:34 UTC
Tested. They're awful.

Please change them back to undo the damage, then go back to the drawing board. Every day of delay is kick in the balls to anyone who used RLMs.

Thanks
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2090 - 2013-11-25 02:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
I think we should get an "insane fits" discussion going. I just did a Cerberus RLML/RHML build that cranks out 690 DPS (812 DPS overheated), and tops out at 872 DPS with 3 Hobgoblin II drones. V skills and several three +5 missile implants. Totally useless for PvE, and far too expensive to solo PvP - but could be good for laughs in groups. Insane range, though: 94.9km/144km.

Addendum: I created another RLML/HAM build that does 764 DPS (898 DPS overheated) and tops out at 958 DPS with 3 Hobgoblin II drones. 52.4km/109km range, too. Not bad. I was able to duplicate it on a Tengu with 870 DPS (1024 DPS overheated), but that's it. Range is horribly bleak at 34.9km/48.5km as well. The remaining power grid pales in comparison to the Cerberus, and the Tengu doesn't get the MWD bonus and smaller signature. It's also half the price with no skill losses when you die.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#2091 - 2013-11-25 03:21:56 UTC
Caracal with 2 ordinary light missile launchers and 3 HAMs, it does 289dps with Javelin to 45km, or 382 dps within 25km with Rage HAM's. 40k EHP buffer tank, 190ehps shield regen, but no prop mod and no tackle lol
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2092 - 2013-11-25 03:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Caracal with 2 ordinary light missile launchers and 3 HAMs, it does 289dps with Javelin to 45km, or 382 dps within 25km with Rage HAM's. 40k EHP buffer tank, 190ehps shield regen, but no prop mod and no tackle lol

How much does it change if you swap-out the light missile launchers for rapid light launchers? I'm thinking that the key to utilizing the new RLMLs is not as a primary weapon system, but a supplementary one.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2093 - 2013-11-25 04:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
I finally had a chance (or rather, made the commitment) to try out the new RLMLs tonight.
Shocked
They're entirely useless for anything over L3s (and only marginally useful in L3s), and I can't imagine PvP use. The reload time needs to be rolled back to nothing short of 20 seconds. RHMLs are fine for the moment, but a reduced 30-second reload time wouldn't hurt, either.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2094 - 2013-11-25 05:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Caracal with 2 ordinary light missile launchers and 3 HAMs, it does 289dps with Javelin to 45km, or 382 dps within 25km with Rage HAM's. 40k EHP buffer tank, 190ehps shield regen, but no prop mod and no tackle lol

How much does it change if you swap-out the light missile launchers for rapid light launchers? I'm thinking that the key to utilizing the new RLMLs is not as a primary weapon system, but a supplementary one.
Aside from not having enough CPU (unless you fit 1 meta 4 and 1 T2 shield, or implants). With 2 RLML's + 3 Hams, DPS with Rage is 442 (but only for 44 seconds), then you have 263 for the next 40 seconds. It could work in the right situation.
With 5 Hams you have 438, without a drop in dps for the 40 seconds reload. So DPS gain from the RLML's in minor compared to the terribad reload time you have to deal with.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#2095 - 2013-11-25 05:15:21 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Caracal with 2 ordinary light missile launchers and 3 HAMs, it does 289dps with Javelin to 45km, or 382 dps within 25km with Rage HAM's. 40k EHP buffer tank, 190ehps shield regen, but no prop mod and no tackle lol

How much does it change if you swap-out the light missile launchers for rapid light launchers? I'm thinking that the key to utilizing the new RLMLs is not as a primary weapon system, but a supplementary one.



Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large F69 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive invulnerability Field II
Adaptive invulnerability Field II

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

I don't know what it's for with no tackle and no prop mod LOL... not useful for pvp or pve unless maybe in large gangs with tacklers, but here's the stats:

DPS within 45km:
Drones 39dps
HAM's 123dps or including reloads 116dps
RLML 245dps or including reloads 129dps
Total 407dps or average dps accounting for reloads 284dps

DPS within 25km:
Drones 39dps
HAM's 185dps or including reloads 175dps
RLML 245dps or including reloads 129dps
Total 469dps or average dps accounting for reloads 343dps

Tank
EHP 60,267
Shield Resists 54 63 72 77
Recharge rate 142 ehp/s
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2096 - 2013-11-25 05:18:48 UTC
Does anyone have the market data for these since the Rubicon release?

Just wondering if the price plummeted. I'm at work or I'd check myself.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#2097 - 2013-11-25 05:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Does anyone have the market data for these since the Rubicon release?

Just wondering if the price plummeted. I'm at work or I'd check myself.


I don't think there's enough margin for the price to plummet, I have bought 5 of them just to look and see how they perform, and I hate the idea. I expect a lot of people will be doing the same thing, we won't see the impact in the market for a while other than a brief spike as people test them out to see if there's a way they can be used
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#2098 - 2013-11-25 05:33:17 UTC
Maybe if they did this and made them fit in utility highs so that any ship with a spare high could toss one on they might be more useful for their intended purpose as a secondary system.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2099 - 2013-11-25 05:50:18 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I think giving them the dps of larger short range missiles is a bad idea. Torpedoes, for one, have tremendous DPS. I think they should do more like heavy missile and cruise missile DPS. Otherwise people will fly them in large gangs and obliterate the competition quickly before they have to reload again. After all, why fit your Raven with torpedoes that go 25km when you can fit heavy missiles with the same burst DPS and a range of 70km? With enough friends, you don't need to worry about the long load time.

Torpedo Ravens and HAM Caracals should do significantly more DPS than RHML Ravens or RLML Caracals.


Giving RHML & RLML a torpedo/ assault type ammo would mean they could do the same sustained DPS as cruise and heavy missiles. In their current guise over 2 mins (good length of time for a fight) they do a little over half the dps of heavies and lights respectively.
Exactly the problem. They should not have the same sustained DPS of heavies or cruises. They may have a shorter range but it's still a pretty nice range, the travel faster, and most important they can deliver damage effectively to much smaller targets. Consider this: why would I use a beam laser if I could instead use an artillery cannon that has the same DPS, much higher alpha, a bit less range, 7.5x the tracking, and a much lower powergrid cost? No, the RLMLs and RHMLs should have less DPS than HMLs and CMLs, respectively.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#2100 - 2013-11-25 05:54:14 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I think giving them the dps of larger short range missiles is a bad idea. Torpedoes, for one, have tremendous DPS. I think they should do more like heavy missile and cruise missile DPS. Otherwise people will fly them in large gangs and obliterate the competition quickly before they have to reload again. After all, why fit your Raven with torpedoes that go 25km when you can fit heavy missiles with the same burst DPS and a range of 70km? With enough friends, you don't need to worry about the long load time.

Torpedo Ravens and HAM Caracals should do significantly more DPS than RHML Ravens or RLML Caracals.


Giving RHML & RLML a torpedo/ assault type ammo would mean they could do the same sustained DPS as cruise and heavy missiles. In their current guise over 2 mins (good length of time for a fight) they do a little over half the dps of heavies and lights respectively.
Exactly the problem. They should not have the same sustained DPS of heavies or cruises. They may have a shorter range but it's still a pretty nice range, the travel faster, and most important they can deliver damage effectively to much smaller targets. Consider this: why would I use a beam laser if I could instead use an artillery cannon that has the same DPS, much higher alpha, a bit less range, 7.5x the tracking, and a much lower powergrid cost? No, the RLMLs and RHMLs should have less DPS than HMLs and CMLs, respectively.


I don't think it's fair to use Heavy missile's as a benchmark for anything... they are broken and that's half the problem with missiles in general.