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Assault Frigates

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Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#101 - 2011-11-05 20:22:06 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:


if kill = landing a scram on a target, or tickling it with the pathetic 250 dps before getting popped, then yes.



So it's not AFs in particular that you have a problem with but frigates in general?
Frigate sized combat is very popular – AFs are a viable and very much so, flown, class of frigates – and alot of people flying them seems to think that 250 dps is nothing to sneeze at.

The overwhelming support for buffing these ships might stem from the fact that AFs aren't very viable in larger operations in 0,0 or high sec which might not see the same kind of small scale / solo warfare that low sec does. People from these areass of space might not realize the viability of this shipclass in the type of combat that they rarely ever experience.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#102 - 2011-11-05 21:21:09 UTC
mkint wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Destroyers were meant to go after frigates. AF had bigger pray in mind. And of course the lines blurred and the theory never worked in practice.

They need to be rethought out with some serious planning put into them.

What if AF's were switched to use oversized guns?


I agree that this is the most balanced, logical thing for CCP to do. Otherwise we'll see them overshadowed by destroyer.
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2011-11-06 00:13:39 UTC
I can fly a detoyrer soon - don't make rich peolpe even more overpwored!
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#104 - 2011-11-13 05:56:06 UTC
is it just me or is there the beginning of a pattern emerging here?

new tier 3 BCs come out with a *big* frigate hole in their defenses...

destroyers get buffed to plug the *big* frigate hole in the new tier 3 BCs defenses...

assault frigs go back to the drawing board.... as a possible answer to the buffed destys and as BC killers???

...

oh hell, a gal can dream cant she?

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#105 - 2011-11-13 05:58:54 UTC
Shaera Taam wrote:
is it just me or is there the beginning of a pattern emerging here?

new tier 3 BCs come out with a *big* frigate hole in their defenses...

destroyers get buffed to plug the *big* frigate hole in the new tier 3 BCs defenses...

assault frigs go back to the drawing board.... as a possible answer to the buffed destys and as BC killers???

...

oh hell, a gal can dream cant she?


every single ship in EVE above cruisers has a gaping frigate hole in its defense. Unless fit to counter frigates specifically. It means nothing.
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#106 - 2011-11-13 06:09:32 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
It means nothing.


i dont mean the standard frigate hole in a cruiser+ ship's defenses, i mean the *big* hole that's been designed into the new BCs...

outside of their use as sologankmobiles, the use of these things in squadron / fleet actions is going to necessitate some attention to this little ships that will be able to get in and rake em over the coals... a desty or two in fleet to cover that *bigger than normal* hole will be a good thing.

all that aside, id love it if the second or third update on the winter expansion introduced us to a new reason to respect the 'assault' in their name.

to me, that does not mean nothing...

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#107 - 2011-11-13 06:13:51 UTC
Shaera Taam wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
It means nothing.


i dont mean the standard frigate hole in a cruiser+ ship's defenses, i mean the *big* hole that's been designed into the new BCs...

outside of their use as sologankmobiles, the use of these things in squadron / fleet actions is going to necessitate some attention to this little ships that will be able to get in and rake em over the coals... a desty or two in fleet to cover that *bigger than normal* hole will be a good thing.

all that aside, id love it if the second or third update on the winter expansion introduced us to a new reason to respect the 'assault' in their name.

to me, that does not mean nothing...


the very nature of fleets make frigates a non-factor, as (proper) fleets have ships dedicated to covering the fleet backbone's weaknesses.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#108 - 2011-11-13 06:39:55 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
KAAAHHHNN!!!Cry


Straight and so I wait some more....

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#109 - 2011-11-13 07:23:54 UTC
Although I love flying my AF I am totally ok with CCP postponing the AF boost. They already made huge changes to supercaps and destroyers. If they want to give AFs a new role, they should first take their time to see how these new changes affect fleet combat and where the new role for the AFs will fit in.

My guts tell me that CCP wants them to be an other counter to supercarriers, giving them boni to quickly take down fighters and bombers......

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#110 - 2011-11-14 04:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: OT Smithers
CCP Navigator wrote:
We really wanted to do Assault Frigate improvements for Winter 2011 but it will not make it into the first release. We are aiming to make it happen sometime after the initial release but at this stage we simply cannot commit to a date.

This is something that we really want to do so you can be assured that it has not been forgotten.


Your assurances have little or no value. I seem to recall a promised fix to EAFs quite some time ago.

In any case, you guys just blew off the most interesting thing (to me) in the entire expansion, and as you have essentially no credibility at all I have zero confidence that you will actually get around to it any time in the near future.
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#111 - 2011-11-14 05:04:37 UTC
Logan LaMort wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
We really wanted to do Assault Frigate improvements for Winter 2011 but it will not make it into the first release. We are aiming to make it happen sometime after the initial release but at this stage we simply cannot commit to a date.

This is something that we really want to do so you can be assured that it has not been forgotten.


Remember Incursions, remember how it had three separate releases over a few months? Remember how CCP are doing staggered releases now?

The above quote doesn't say AF improvements are dropped, or will be done in the far future. Navigator is just simply saying that it won't be in the first release, but they're hoping to do it for the Winter expansion releases after.

Besides, would you rather they rushed it in time for the first release and screw it up, or wait a month or two for a good result?


Good luck with that. This is CCP we are talking about here.
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#112 - 2011-11-14 05:08:23 UTC
Levi Solomon wrote:


I know, right?

Like the whole rockets fiasco that involved changing two or three numbers, yet somehow took YEARS to implement when everyone knew exactly what was wrong and how to fix it and why it made sense.

Is there some bad game design here I'm not aware of? Aren't we really just talking about changing some numbers?

Meeting this winter expansion 'goal' would be so good for CCP and it could be a days work.

Just give them all a 5-10%/lvl Afterburner bonus (and make the Minmatar AFs slightly slower)

if you really want to get creative, give them 8 separate bonuses. With the destroyer buff coming, this should be a no-brainer.

WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT?



It's difficult because most of their staff is working on other projects and games.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#113 - 2011-11-14 05:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
OT Smithers wrote:
Logan LaMort wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
We really wanted to do Assault Frigate improvements for Winter 2011 but it will not make it into the first release. We are aiming to make it happen sometime after the initial release but at this stage we simply cannot commit to a date.

This is something that we really want to do so you can be assured that it has not been forgotten.


Remember Incursions, remember how it had three separate releases over a few months? Remember how CCP are doing staggered releases now?

The above quote doesn't say AF improvements are dropped, or will be done in the far future. Navigator is just simply saying that it won't be in the first release, but they're hoping to do it for the Winter expansion releases after.

Besides, would you rather they rushed it in time for the first release and screw it up, or wait a month or two for a good result?


Good luck with that. This is CCP we are talking about here.


Yes it is, and frankly I have a lot more faith in their credibility than I do in yours. Blink

Edit:
Quote:
It's difficult because most of their staff is working on other projects and games.


Especially when you spout incorrect garbage like this. Try to keep up with current events.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#114 - 2011-11-14 06:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
There's already barely any reason to fly T1 cruisers anymore. If you switched AFs to use oversized guns, there'll be NO reason. As much as I hate to say, being owner of all eight AFs, if CCP decided to just remove AFs from the game completely I wouldn't complain.

However, a less drastic measure would be to give them bonuses geared towards tackling larger ships, whose energy neuts and webs would normally keep frigate tacklers at a distance. An AF that does the same DPS as today, but which can maintain unbroken tackle when hit by a large neut or some medium neuts, would be nice. It'd basically be like an interceptor, only one that gets in your face and does a lot of damage. In the meantime, nerf the Taranis's drones What?
Actually now that I think about it, I guess I would complain if they got removed. Oops

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Terrorina
#115 - 2011-11-18 20:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Terrorina
I think you guys fail to understand that every ship in this game is meant to have a counter and a specific role.

The issue with AF's is not that they don't have the counter.. it's that they have no role. They are too slow to be a scout, to slow to be tackle, no EWAR (see Retribution's 1 mid slot). So what's their role?

Every other t2 frigate has a specific role:
'Ceptors Tackle/Scout
Bombers Bomb
Cov Ops Probe,
EWAR Frigates Jam, Damp, Wep Disrupt

So based on their name I would assume that an Assault Frigate's role is to apply DPS but that DPS is not sufficient and due to the speed of these ship's it is hard to get into a range to apply this damage (as well as being too slow to effectively mitigate damage by 'speed tanking'. )

IMO the main problem here is the fact that destroyers exist and can do everything an AF can do and do it better.

Just my 2¢
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#116 - 2011-11-30 16:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaera Taam
well, here's to hoping a shameless bump like this one will put AFs back near the top of the Dev's thinkbox, or at least remind them that we're over here... folded arms, feet tapping with varying degrees of patience...

Roll

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#117 - 2011-11-30 16:27:37 UTC
Haha, some stupid idea popped in as I read the latest posts.

Quote:
why not just make AF immune to EW as role bonus?


Then I think about it. Maybe it would be worth trying out. Or just immune to web and NOS/neuts. ;-)
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#118 - 2011-11-30 16:30:12 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
We really wanted to do Assault Frigate improvements for Winter 2011 but it will not make it into the first release. We are aiming to make it happen sometime after the initial release but at this stage we simply cannot commit to a date.

This is something that we really want to do so you can be assured that it has not been forgotten.



What role to the developers see the assault frigs assuming within EVE? While there's a lot of suggestions out there for different bonuses/layouts I think this should be clear to the community if there's any hope of getting meaningful feedback/suggestions.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
VanNostrum
Perkone
Caldari State
#119 - 2011-11-30 21:22:19 UTC
I'm sorry but i've been playing since 2005 and maxed AF skills many years ago. And year after year CCP throws a bait like "we're gonna do something about AFs" and nothing has changed patch after patch. Mind you, same promises were thrown out even before EAFs came out, which is another broken line. They promised AF changes before T2 BCs came out, before dictors came out, before hictors came out, before EAFs came out, before tech 3 cruisers came out. Last I remember dev posts saying they were gonna look into EAFs and AFs over a year ago. I won't be surprised if EAFs get adjusted without AFs getting touched.
Fyrkraag
Perkone
Caldari State
#120 - 2011-11-30 21:33:17 UTC

As a 2007 char who has been training diligently since, I can fly a lot of things. I've pew-pewed in just about everything. Despite my massive ship arsenal worth more than 3 billion isk, it is actually the little AFs that I enjoy flying the most. They have excellent mobility, they are frequently understimated when trying to entice a fight (and therefore means getting one), and have excellent combat potential.

I can tell you that AFs are much meaner than they look, its just people don't know how to use them. Our AF heavy setup even did ok in the alliance tournament as well, which is an entirely different format than normal "TQ" play.

Since I have everything and can fly everything, no matter what gets nerfed or buffed I'll be penalized or benefited as equally as anything else in Eve, so it doesn't matter to me.

Seriously though, don't underestimate an AF gang.