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Dev Blog: Fleet, you fools! - UI Changes In Rubicon

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Ahab Mare
yCATbIE KPA6bI
#81 - 2013-11-08 12:56:13 UTC
That is all nice, but still Wing Comannder dont get Bonuses. Please fix that, before you do something new.

Thanks and fly safe

BALEX
Trenair Borune
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-11-08 15:09:58 UTC
Great job CCP karkur, making the Eve UI experience better at about a dozen changes at a time :)
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#83 - 2013-11-08 15:40:33 UTC
Karkur is an Icelandic word for "Awesome and pretty likely for President and/or God".
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2013-11-08 19:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lena Lazair
Regarding the usability of shift-move... to me the logic there is a bit odd, is restricted to a bizarre squad exception, and is generally unintuitive as a result. I think this behavior makes more sense and would be easier to remember:

* when dragging any number of people (1 or many) onto the fleet commander, wing commander, or squad commander position, those people are placed in the first open squad member position under that squad/wing/fleet

* to set a fleet commander, wing commander, or squad commander, shift-drag a single person to that slot

There, very simple logic. Regular drag always puts people into the fleet as a squad member. Shift-drag always assigns leadership. Easy peasy.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2013-11-08 20:35:01 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
Regarding the usability of shift-move... to me the logic there is a bit odd, is restricted to a bizarre squad exception, and is generally unintuitive as a result. I think this behavior makes more sense and would be easier to remember:

* when dragging any number of people (1 or many) onto the fleet commander, wing commander, or squad commander position, those people are placed in the first open squad member position under that squad/wing/fleet

* to set a fleet commander, wing commander, or squad commander, shift-drag a single person to that slot

There, very simple logic. Regular drag always puts people into the fleet as a squad member. Shift-drag always assigns leadership. Easy peasy.

It's actually not a squad exception... it also applies to Wing and Commander slots, I just didn't mention that in the blog.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#86 - 2013-11-08 22:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
I agree with Lena Lazair, that the shift modifier is more appropriate for the less-common task of setting a commander, than for the more-common task of rearranging squad members. That's very minor though, I'm sure it will work out as coded now.

However I do have a different request for you, CCP Karkur!

IMO, mass dragging onto a wing or fleet should only set 9 people per squad, as long as there are sufficient child member slots open underneath the drag target. This is because squads with 10 members can't set a squad commander from another squad, unless one of the 10 moves out, or moves up. This adds to the workload for the boss. ("FC I'm in squad 2 and have leadership 5 but squad 3 has 10 members and no commanders, please drag someone out of it because they aren't paying attention")

So, if I create a brand new fleet, and then drag 11 people onto the fleet commander position, or a wing commander position, you should place 9 of them as members in squad 1 and 2 as members in squad 2. If there are too few slots to place my 11 draggee's into 9 member squads, then and only then should you populate the 10th squad member positions of each squad.

This would revise your drag rules to be:

1st squad choice: "top-most squad with both a Wing Commander and a Squad Commander"
2nd squad choice: "top-most squad with a Wing Commander"
3rd squad choice: "top-most squad with a Squad Commander",
4th squad choice: "top-most commander-less squad with <9 members"
5th squad choice: "top-most commander-less squad with 9 members"

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Royaldo
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Clever Use of Neutral Toons
#87 - 2013-11-08 23:31:32 UTC
Add another skill for fleets, +250 dudes pr level. Make it cost loads, make it same crappy will mem thingy with rank 16..
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#88 - 2013-11-09 01:51:10 UTC
Thanks for the update for these awesome changes. Been a long time coming. I suggest checking if these changes require an update to the wiki, unless the wiki is no longer used by anyone (appears to not be updated for years).
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-11-09 03:32:58 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
It's actually not a squad exception... it also applies to Wing and Commander slots, I just didn't mention that in the blog.


Does shift-move also work when multimoving people? By work I mean, will it still just make them all regular squad members exactly as if I hadn't been holding shift? Or will it be confused?

Basically I'm just trying to figure out if I have to worry about whether I'm moving one or multi people, which is the thing I least want to care about. If I can always just hold shift to make sure whatever I'm dropping is assigned as a squad member then that's consistent too, with the added benefit of not actually changing any of the existing behaviors people are used to (even though my suggestion is CATEGORICALLY BETTER if ignoring backwards compatibility ;)
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2013-11-09 06:32:42 UTC
It would be really nice to have the ability to show distance on the watchlist. Please, please CCP can this be implemented?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2013-11-09 10:11:08 UTC
kosswomen Mckay
Fight Club Outfit
DammFam
#92 - 2013-11-09 10:13:37 UTC
OMG you have added a few tweaks and small changes and think this is a big deal and worthy of classifying it as an expansion?!!

Yes great thanks for these few tweaks but this is hardly representative of a supposedly full dev team in over 3 offices...I wonder what all those people are doing?

We NEED more real development in Eve. We need out of pod and we need it now not 2020!!!! We need Valkarie and we need that **** next year. We do not need a few tweaks to the UI!
Drogdasan
Calvary's Cavalry
#93 - 2013-11-09 10:33:13 UTC
Hmm. I have now discovered that I need to post here.

I do have a concern with the drag to invite from any pilot list functionality.

Jita.

Are we all about to get spammed out of our brain with fleet invites in every hub system because people are looking for the easy fleet kill?
Yes it will be great when I'm in null and the FC wants a fleet put together quickly, but there are going to be a lot of occasions when we don't want to see this up.
Perhaps limiting it to people we have at +5 or higher (or modifiable for any value of N).
Or disabling it in systems with more than X number of pilots.
Or even just making it possible to turn off.

I'd prefer something like the first, and I bet your system resources will appreciate the reduction of spurious invites clogging up the system.
Jasmin Fox
Keeper of the Black Star
#94 - 2013-11-09 11:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jasmin Fox
Please add the following feature (which bugs me in every fleet):

If a squad has already 10 pilots in it but no squad command, you were till now unable to get into squad command position if you wanted to drag yourself (free move on) from another squad directly into the free squad command position. Sucks if noone of these 10ppl who are already in the squad has leadership V.

Cheers
Jasmin

btw...If FC sets a fleet layout.. can he please also define, that f.e. squad XYZ can only be used for like logistic ships? (If pilot sits in one when he joins fleet). That would be awesome :)
Jasmin Fox
Keeper of the Black Star
#95 - 2013-11-09 11:30:49 UTC
Drogdasan wrote:
Hmm. I have now discovered that I need to post here.

I do have a concern with the drag to invite from any pilot list functionality.

Jita.

Are we all about to get spammed out of our brain with fleet invites in every hub system because people are looking for the easy fleet kill?

You can just check the checkpoint in your ESC-Menu that you dont want to get invites (when you are in highsec).
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#96 - 2013-11-09 12:50:06 UTC
Drogdasan wrote:
Hmm. I have now discovered that I need to post here.

I do have a concern with the drag to invite from any pilot list functionality.

Jita.

Are we all about to get spammed out of our brain with fleet invites in every hub system because people are looking for the easy fleet kill?
Yes it will be great when I'm in null and the FC wants a fleet put together quickly, but there are going to be a lot of occasions when we don't want to see this up.
Perhaps limiting it to people we have at +5 or higher (or modifiable for any value of N).
Or disabling it in systems with more than X number of pilots.
Or even just making it possible to turn off.

I'd prefer something like the first, and I bet your system resources will appreciate the reduction of spurious invites clogging up the system.
That's a good point and we'll keep an eye on it and react to it if needed Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#97 - 2013-11-09 12:56:32 UTC
Jasmin Fox wrote:
Please add the following feature (which bugs me in every fleet):

If a squad has already 10 pilots in it but no squad command, you were till now unable to get into squad command position if you wanted to drag yourself (free move on) from another squad directly into the free squad command position. Sucks if noone of these 10ppl who are already in the squad has leadership V.

Cheers
Jasmin

btw...If FC sets a fleet layout.. can he please also define, that f.e. squad XYZ can only be used for like logistic ships? (If pilot sits in one when he joins fleet). That would be awesome :)
Well, you can only have 10 people in the squad, so you just need to shuffle people around.

It's a bit tricky to restrict squads to ships or anything like that because what happens then when you reship? Are you just moved from your squad and to some other squad? Is that what you would expect? When you are killed and are in a pod, are you still logistics pilot? I'm afraid the rules and setups would quickly become very complicated.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#98 - 2013-11-09 13:00:36 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
It's actually not a squad exception... it also applies to Wing and Commander slots, I just didn't mention that in the blog.


Does shift-move also work when multimoving people? By work I mean, will it still just make them all regular squad members exactly as if I hadn't been holding shift? Or will it be confused?

Basically I'm just trying to figure out if I have to worry about whether I'm moving one or multi people, which is the thing I least want to care about. If I can always just hold shift to make sure whatever I'm dropping is assigned as a squad member then that's consistent too, with the added benefit of not actually changing any of the existing behaviors people are used to (even though my suggestion is CATEGORICALLY BETTER if ignoring backwards compatibility ;)
Mulitmove already only adds people as squad members, but you are welcome to hold down shift too when you move them Smile

The problem I would see with having shift as "make commander" is that if you are in my fleet, and I start to drag you and then drop you on the Wing Commander position, I would expect you to be moved there. I don't have to even know that this shift thing exists, you just go where I dropped you.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#99 - 2013-11-09 13:04:32 UTC
kosswomen Mckay wrote:
OMG you have added a few tweaks and small changes and think this is a big deal and worthy of classifying it as an expansion?!!

Yes great thanks for these few tweaks but this is hardly representative of a supposedly full dev team in over 3 offices...I wonder what all those people are doing?

We NEED more real development in Eve. We need out of pod and we need it now not 2020!!!! We need Valkarie and we need that **** next year. We do not need a few tweaks to the UI!
Not sure if serious

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
#100 - 2013-11-09 13:38:44 UTC
Nice changes.
Can you please make the BROADCAST buttons BIGGER?

TIA