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EVE 2.0
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#41 - 2013-11-06 21:49:08 UTC
The problem with that is:

9 women don't take 1 month to make a baby.


This isn't a problem where you can just get engineers off a shelf. 'Deep Magic'.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#42 - 2013-11-06 21:54:57 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The problem with that is:

9 women don't take 1 month to make a baby.


This isn't a problem where you can just get engineers off a shelf. 'Deep Magic'.


trite cliche is trite

You'll just have to trust me - hiring more coders/developers to work on a complex project will speed up the completion time of that project. There is certainly a point of diminishing returns, but that applies to damn near everything.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#43 - 2013-11-06 22:00:40 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The problem with that is:

9 women don't take 1 month to make a baby.


This isn't a problem where you can just get engineers off a shelf. 'Deep Magic'.


trite cliche is trite

You'll just have to trust me - hiring more coders/developers to work on a complex project will speed up the completion time of that project. There is certainly a point of diminishing returns, but that applies to damn near everything.



Clichés are clichés for a reason. It's because there's an element of truth to them.

As for believing you, you're not the only one with a software development background. Never assume that, as it makes you look more than a trifle arrogant. Adding developers to a project will /eventually/ give benefits speed wise. But first, they have to get up to speed with the existing code base and design decisions that have been made. And while they're doing this, they slow down the developers who are already up to speed

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
voetius
Grundrisse
#44 - 2013-11-06 22:24:29 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
CCP,

It's been 10 years, and your game is aging badly. Have you ever considered EVE 2.0?

Set up a kickstarter, or get some capital some other way, and rewrite your Frankenstein code from the bottom up. That's all - rewrite it, make it tighter, make it cleaner, make it easier to adjust in the future. Take advantage of new hardware technologies and build in room to take advantage of future upgrades. And make it more compatible with walking in stations :)

And ****, just this once, sell it as an expansion rather than giving it away. Between start up capital and sales, you could hopefully spend upwards of $20 million giving EVE a much needed facelift, that'll hopefully allow you to 1) fix longstanding problems 2) run everything smoother (less TiDi, more responsive game) 3) add new features and upgrades without making it sound like you need the Rosetta Stone to understand how to code it.

Please?


PC Gamer magazine Jan 2011 page 59 :

Torfi : " EVE 2 would be the worst idea ever. To reboot the society, economy, social infrastructure, would be madness"
Tikitina
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-11-06 22:30:02 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

...Between start up capital and sales, you could hopefully spend upwards of $20 million ...



Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
..I just wish CCP would engineer a heavy injection of capital and speed the damn process up...



I think you are confusing the head and the ass-end and are talking out both sides of your mouth while pulling random BS out of you hat (ass).

Capital comes from loans and the rich investing in companies at the beginning of a project.
Player subs from a "new" game come later as in returns on those investments after the work is mostly done.

These don't come at the same time, and the results of them are normally in opposing directions with payments on loans going out and subs from new players coming in.


To be honest, you seem to have no clue and are simply impatient.

Kind of like the paper-boy telling the editor how do his job after he's delivered a few papers on a summer job.


Or, can you submit this detailed plan on how 20 mil will solve everyone's problems with this product.
How did you come upon this figure?
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2013-11-06 22:40:33 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Ageing badly? Wut?


TiDi.

Node crashes.

Huge difficulty just allowing T3 ships to refit anywhere other than a station.

SMA's not dropping loot for a year because it was too hard to effectively code.

Freighter salvage issues because of problems with the code.

Walking in Captain's Quarters (much less stations) being a computational nightmare.

One second server ticks.

Terribad UI.

Wut?


So instead of just replacing the code one bit at a time like they are doing right now, let's just ditch ALL the current code and write the entire game up from scratch.

Awesome idea man, absolutely amazing logic LolRoll

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

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Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#47 - 2013-11-06 22:44:29 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

...Between start up capital and sales, you could hopefully spend upwards of $20 million ...



Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
..I just wish CCP would engineer a heavy injection of capital and speed the damn process up...



I think you are confusing the head and the ass-end and are talking out both sides of your mouth while pulling random BS out of you hat (ass).

Capital comes from loans and the rich investing in companies at the beginning of a project.
Player subs from a "new" game come later as in returns on those investments after the work is mostly done.

These don't come at the same time, and the results of them are normally in opposing directions with payments on loans going out and subs from new players coming in.


To be honest, you seem to have no clue and are simply impatient.

Kind of like the paper-boy telling the editor how do his job after he's delivered a few papers on a summer job.


Or, can you submit this detailed plan on how 20 mil will solve everyone's problems with this product.
How did you come upon this figure?





Gotta love GD.

Up front capital can also come from a loan. A loan can be paid back by future revenue.

Congrats, I engaged someone who knows nothing about business but loves posting on the internet. Now shoo, troll, go find another thread.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#48 - 2013-11-06 22:45:56 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Ageing badly? Wut?


TiDi.

Node crashes.

Huge difficulty just allowing T3 ships to refit anywhere other than a station.

SMA's not dropping loot for a year because it was too hard to effectively code.

Freighter salvage issues because of problems with the code.

Walking in Captain's Quarters (much less stations) being a computational nightmare.

One second server ticks.

Terribad UI.

Wut?


So instead of just replacing the code one bit at a time like they are doing right now, let's just ditch ALL the current code and write the entire game up from scratch.

Awesome idea man, absolutely amazing logic LolRoll


L2R.

Please, you are just making me sad.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#49 - 2013-11-06 22:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: 45thtiger 0109
Please remove

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#50 - 2013-11-06 22:57:52 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
OP is trolling or just plain ignorant. OP really needs to go back to ---> WoW. :P


TIL EVE playerbase is bad at reading comprehension and has reaaaaalllllyyy low expectations.

And comparing cleaning up the code to WOW is just flat out ******** . . .

But to the non-trolls (and the one helpful guy who talked about the Carbon thingie I did not know of) can you think of a better solution other than status-quo? Seems like an efficient rewrite would almost demand new capital, and I don't know how CCP could do that short of a re-release/paid expansion, kickstarter, or (shudder) heavily ramped up microtransactions (NO, please)


There are allot of MMO's out there that have microtransactions.

Back in I think 2010 or 2011 there was a Big think about microtransactions in eve and allot of players were against microtransactions.

I for one did not care if CCP were or were not going to bring microtransactions into eve.

I just play the game as intended.

As for the code over the years CCP has done a great job with the code by not touching it.

I did remember that CCP said somewhere in the early fourm if they touched the code it was something to do with the starbase that could cause problems.

And the code is intertwined with each other and so fragile.

OP I do not know how long you been playing EVE but you should ask the players that have been in EvE since the start and they can tell you that EvE back then was really bad in the early days.

Like really bad lag ect ect ect

But these days we have TiDi back they did not have TiDi.

I could remember when I was fighting against BOB in the North I saw my ship been blown up and I could see the mods taken by someone and I would relog back in and after a few hours after my ship is still intact. This was caused by really bad latency and lag problems.

These days TiDi fixes a lot of those issues with lag & latency Great job on that CCP :)









**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-11-06 23:29:53 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
...your game is aging badly.


No it's not. Everything you're complaining about is either irrelevant, being addressed, or not the problem you think it is.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Violet Crumble
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#52 - 2013-11-06 23:42:47 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
It's been 10 years, and your game is aging badly.


I agree with you, it is aging badly.

It's aging so badly in fact, that it's not aging at all.

Silly CCP. Make it age better...What?

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-11-07 00:40:52 UTC
This is about 20th thread this week about this topic. So, OP, have you developed quantum computing and FTL data transmission? The others hadn't, but you seem pretty sure of yourself so I'm assuming you've at least begun work on a prototype. If you hurry up and finish, you can donate it to CCP and all of your problems will go away. If you haven't started prototyping yet, or even looked into the kind of hardware and software they use now and would need to solve all of these issues, perhaps you shouldn't post such threads like this one?
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-11-07 01:19:41 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
OP is trolling or just plain ignorant. OP really needs to go back to ---> WoW. :P


TIL EVE playerbase is bad at reading comprehension and has reaaaaalllllyyy low expectations.

And comparing cleaning up the code to WOW is just flat out ******** . . .

But to the non-trolls (and the one helpful guy who talked about the Carbon thingie I did not know of) can you think of a better solution other than status-quo? Seems like an efficient rewrite would almost demand new capital, and I don't know how CCP could do that short of a re-release/paid expansion, kickstarter, or (shudder) heavily ramped up microtransactions (NO, please)


The code is being rewritten. Check out Crime Watch 2.0
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#55 - 2013-11-07 02:14:02 UTC
While your waiting for Eve 2.0 or Half Naked Vampires Online, can I keep your stuff warm?
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#56 - 2013-11-07 02:31:28 UTC
Good idea, though i think it would be fair simplier if CCP stopped getting sidetracked by other projects, such as DUST and Valkyrie. We can't even play these games on the PC! Seems to me that they'd be better off putting these resources into improving EvE itself.

I agree with your general idea, that EvEs ancient code needs massive love, and that its server needs to be upgraded yet again. But making the player base shoulder the cost is going to be counter-productive, especially considering how much they love to whine about everything.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#57 - 2013-11-07 03:33:15 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Good idea, though i think it would be fair simplier if CCP stopped getting sidetracked by other projects, such as DUST and Valkyrie. We can't even play these games on the PC! Seems to me that they'd be better off putting these resources into improving EvE itself.

I agree with your general idea, that EvEs ancient code needs massive love, and that its server needs to be upgraded yet again. But making the player base shoulder the cost is going to be counter-productive, especially considering how much they love to whine about everything.



Just so you know, Valkyrie's being written for use with the Oculus Rift. Which is a bit of PC hardware.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2013-11-07 07:28:14 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Interesting, but not directly applicable. Mostly because it does appear that the problems with EVE's code are architectural, and a ground-up rebuild would make a HUGE difference.
It's entirely applicable.
You don't rewrite from the ground up because that makes things far more broken and buggy than they were before.

Instead, you upgrade in stages — exactly as they're doing it right now. Some stages will have to be bigger and some smaller, but a re-write from scratch is a good way to ensure that it will not work and that all the effort will go to waste.

Quote:
Improve/eliminate the need for TiDi. Improve the ability to fix bugs on the fly, or add features that take forever to code nowadays (T3 reftting, anyone?) . . . . better UI, across the board, better handling of server queries
None of these require a complete re-write; some of them are already being done in a much more intelligent manner; and some definitely shouldn't be fixed since that would break things horribly
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-11-07 07:40:41 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
They have plans which are being worked on, to replace code and re-architect bits of Eve which are primary pain points.


Brain in a box. (A major cause of TiDi is the rebuilding of character details on session changes. Brain in a box will help correct that, by offloading it to a different server, and removing the requirement for a complete rebuild. This will take work on /anywhere/ skills are accessed.)

Offloading client updates to a different thread, rather than having them inline.


It's not sexy changes, so you shouldn't expect much in the way of updates on it (you can only say "we're working on it" in so many ways) but it's being worked on.



This guy gets it.

I just wish CCP would engineer a heavy injection of capital and speed the damn process up.


This guy was pointing out that all of the suggestions that you mentioned were already being worked on, and this post was meant to show you that a ground up rewrite 2.0 doesn't need to happen.

And you say we have reading comprehension problems . . .

All of the things you have mentioned in your first post are happening, they are just happening under the hood. They just write for the chaos server and then port it to tranquility every downtime. This way we can continue to play the game even though the Carbon Initiative (or your vision of Eve 2.0) is happening. Almost all of the old 'legacy' code is going to be fixed with this modular design in Rubicon, like fitting T3s in a mobile depot, SMAs and Freighters dropping loot, and a whole slew of other things that was near impossible under the legacy code.

Ohh and also 0/10 because either you are trolling or are really thick headed.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2013-11-07 07:59:35 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
your game is aging badly


has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....