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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#81 - 2013-11-07 09:54:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Maybe you should do some research or explain if you are right why is it that the PCU this June, just finally got back to pre-Incarna levels.
Because Incarna nuked the population. It was a one-time dip, and other than that, the population is growing.

As for PCUs, they follow a very predictable weekly, monthly, and yearly pattern. Summers are high, trailing off during the beginning of autumn and then building right back up again as we get closer to the winter patch.

Quote:
Also you are aware that those subscriber numbers and the PCU include trial accounts right?
The PCUs do; the subscriber numbers never have — they only include active accounts (trials, by very definition, have not been activated).
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#82 - 2013-11-07 09:58:02 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
sipping my rum and coke


Clarification needed.

Are we talking white rum? Or proper, tasty, tasty, dark navy rum?




Damn I want a Captain Morgans and Pepsi right now. Sad

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#83 - 2013-11-07 10:04:26 UTC
I just want to Congratulate the OP on a successful thread, look at all the mad people and Rubicon hasn't even started yet..!

Haven't had pizza in 2 years might get one on Rubicon release day, the threads will be delicious hopefully the pizza too.
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#84 - 2013-11-07 11:29:59 UTC
Long live Apocrypha!

Any colour you like.
Prince Kobol
#85 - 2013-11-07 11:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Maybe you should do some research or explain if you are right why is it that the PCU this June, just finally got back to pre-Incarna levels.
Because Incarna nuked the population. It was a one-time dip, and other than that, the population is growing.

As for PCUs, they follow a very predictable weekly, monthly, and yearly pattern. Summers are high, trailing off during the beginning of autumn and then building right back up again as we get closer to the winter patch.

Quote:
Also you are aware that those subscriber numbers and the PCU include trial accounts right?
The PCUs do; the subscriber numbers never have — they only include active accounts (trials, by very definition, have not been activated).


The 2 highest peaks on the all time weekly PCU graph from Eve Offline (DD/MM/YY Format)

06-01-2011 Weekly Average 36430

06-06-2013 Weekly Average 36252 (this include Dust Accounts)

18 months to get back to pre-Incarna levels with the help of a few thousand Dust accounts.

Wow.. Eve is doing amazing !!!!

Eve is no where near close to death, in fact I am sure it has many years ahead of it, but as far as I am concerned it is starting to stagnate.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#86 - 2013-11-07 11:56:44 UTC
Just wait until we have a proper expansion and things are going to get better again.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2013-11-07 11:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Prince Kobol wrote:
18 months to get back to pre-Incarna levels with the help of a few thousand Dust accounts.

Wow.. Eve is doing amazing !!!!
Indeed it is.
What you're seeing is what a colossal cockup incarna (and Incursion) was, and why “proper expansions” do not provide neither the answer nor the data people often suggest…
Alt Two
Caldari Capital Construction Inc.
#88 - 2013-11-07 12:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alt Two
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Don't disappoint me, CCP... but, then again, if the last 10 years are any indication (except for Incarna.... but 19 wins out of 20 attempts is still a pretty awesome record), I know you won't.

Some people would disagree with you.
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/04/go-tell-it-on-mountain.html
Prince Kobol
#89 - 2013-11-07 12:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Tippia wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
18 months to get back to pre-Incarna levels with the help of a few thousand Dust accounts.

Wow.. Eve is doing amazing !!!!
Indeed it is.
What you're seeing is what a colossal cockup incarna (and Incursion) was, and why “proper expansions” do not provide neither the answer nor the data people often suggest…


That is where I disagree.

Proper expansions that are done correctly that bring in new content helps to not only attract new players but keep existing players.

A patch is well that.. a patch.

Also if you look at each expansion right from the first Castor thought to Incusion (expect for maybe a couple) each brought something new and innovative which helps attract new players and keeps existing players.

Unless of course you are going to compare Rubicon to the likes of Exodus: Cold War, Exodus: Red Moon Rising, Trinity, Empyrean Age, Apocrypha, Dominion, Tyrannis, Incursion, Crucible.

Just for the record, taking 18 months to get back to where they were and also needing to add accounts from a separate game to do that is far from amazing.. if fact its actually pretty bad.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#90 - 2013-11-07 13:27:50 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Excited for Rubicon. I feel like this is going to be one of the best expansions, yet.
The bittervet in me says "nothing will ever top RMR"... but despite that, I am anxious to see where future expansions will take us.

Also, am quite looking forward to the "hilarity ensues" on patch day, when half the community will act like it's the end of the world because something broke. I will be, as always, lounging on that couch, sipping my rum and coke, and fiddling with my data pad, waiting for the opportunity to tell everyone I can log on just fine.

Don't disappoint me, CCP... but, then again, if the last 10 years are any indication (except for Incarna.... but 19 wins out of 20 attempts is still a pretty awesome record), I know you won't.



You tell em Jarod. it is always funny to see spolied space-brats complain about how "it's not an expansion because it doesn't give me no I"I win" buttons!"

Having been on the test server, I already see that Rubicon is giving me (as an explorer and PVE player) a lot of stuff, which makes up for all the expansions I've lived through that didn't give me much.

The deployable depot (and the fact that tech3s will be able to reconfigure in space) means NO MORE DED plexes with a crappily fit travel tengu/loki lol. It means I can take the cloaks off my battleships when I get to that far off escalation, because that cloak makes lokking frigs a serious pain.

It means that I can fit my ships to clear the 1st several rooms of a DED plex with a high dps set up, deploy the deopt, refit for more tank and do the loot room properly instead of having to make trade offs in a station 24 jumps behind me.

the RHML simply means more isk for me the way I use supporting ships with FoF missiles.

The bastion mod for marauders means my double ASB vargur will have an even easier time doing lvl 5 missions and Blood Raider 10/10s. The SOE cruiers will probably replace my ishtar.

The new warp mechanics and such are going to seriously change the game in ways we can't even predict yet.

On and on, and that doesn't even touch on how Alliances are going to find ways to use these things to screw over each other in PVP.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#91 - 2013-11-07 13:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Prince Kobol wrote:
Also if you look at each expansion right from the first Castor thought to Incusion (expect for maybe a couple) each brought something new and innovative which helps attract new players and keeps existing players.

Unless of course you are going to compare Rubicon to the likes of Exodus: Cold War, Exodus: Red Moon Rising, Trinity, Empyrean Age, Apocrypha, Dominion, Tyrannis, Incursion, Crucible.
Incursion should not be on that list, and it's a good example of why the expansion = more people idea doesn't work.

Incursion caused a short-live burst of more activity, but it was actually a pretty huge loss. The kind of content was exactly what people envision in their “expansion, not patch” spiels but in reality, it cause more people to leave the game. Based on what I've seen so far, Rubicon should definitely not be compared with Incursion, but for almost the exact opposite reason of what you're thinking: because it will increase the player count rather than hurt it the way Incursions did.

Rubicon is set to benefit pretty much every player in the game in some way, and thus to keep them around and attract more people. This compared to how Incursions only benefitted an utterly minuscule amount of people and made a lot of others leave. Ok, that's perhaps not entirely fair: the “patch” parts of Incursion created a great buzz and started to spin up the numbers since there was good stuff for almost everyone, but the “expansion” part then came along and quickly reversed that trend.

Quote:
Just for the record, taking 18 months to get back to where they were and also needing to add accounts from a separate game to do that is far from amazing.. if fact its actually pretty bad.
18 months for 10–15% growth is not “pretty bad” for a decade-old game. Again, I think you're underestimating the size of the hit the game took from Incursion and Incarna, and that's before we take into account the fact that you're effectively measuring from an over-inflated bubble that burst shortly after…
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#92 - 2013-11-07 13:47:15 UTC
Mythrandier wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
sipping my rum and coke


Clarification needed.

Are we talking white rum? Or proper, tasty, tasty, dark navy rum?




Damn I want a Captain Morgans and Pepsi right now. Sad



Sailor Jerry or Blackheart is preferred. Cruzan or Shellback can easily substitute if I need to go cheap. Captain Morgan or Kraken, if nothing else is available.
"Silver" rums, only in the direst of emergencies. Spiced rum is the only way.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#93 - 2013-11-07 13:49:57 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
sipping my rum and coke


Clarification needed.

Are we talking white rum? Or proper, tasty, tasty, dark navy rum?




Damn I want a Captain Morgans and Pepsi right now. Sad



Sailor Jerry or Blackheart is preferred. Cruzan or Shellback can easily substitute if I need to go cheap. Captain Morgan or Kraken, if nothing else is available.
"Silver" rums, only in the direst of emergencies. Spiced rum is the only way.



I approve good Sir!

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#94 - 2013-11-07 14:00:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Excited for Rubicon. I feel like this is going to be one of the best expansions, yet.
The bittervet in me says "nothing will ever top RMR"... but despite that, I am anxious to see where future expansions will take us.

Also, am quite looking forward to the "hilarity ensues" on patch day, when half the community will act like it's the end of the world because something broke. I will be, as always, lounging on that couch, sipping my rum and coke, and fiddling with my data pad, waiting for the opportunity to tell everyone I can log on just fine.

Don't disappoint me, CCP... but, then again, if the last 10 years are any indication (except for Incarna.... but 19 wins out of 20 attempts is still a pretty awesome record), I know you won't.



You tell em Jarod. it is always funny to see spolied space-brats complain about how "it's not an expansion because it doesn't give me no I"I win" buttons!"

On and on, and that doesn't even touch on how Alliances are going to find ways to use these things to screw over each other in PVP.


There really are a lot of people complaining about things.

To everyone crying about how this "isn't a proper expansion!".... first of all, you *DO* realize that this entire game is still in development, right? As in prototype. As in unfinished product being pieced together as we go. So, really, we're not even actual "customers"... we're just investors being rewarded by getting to beta test whenever we want.

Also... despite the fact that I really do troll a lot on the forums... my original statement stands. This thread was quite the serious. This next expansion is going to do some amazing things... even if it doesn't happen right away.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#95 - 2013-11-07 14:04:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[quote=Prince Kobol]The kind of content was exactly what people envision in their “expansion, not patch” spiels but in reality, it cause more people to leave the game.


You could probably write a book about the phenomenon. it applies to more than just expansions but to some people's world view in general I think pretty much this every time I read something by the "moar subs" or anti-non consensual pvp type people.

They honestly think that changes they are in favor of will make the game more appealing to more people when history shows that such changes would more likely NOT bring in more players while alienating existing players (the "double whammy of stupid" I call it lol).

Kind of like people get all hot about changes they think are gonna screw over large groups and "bring more blance" just to see those ideas implemented....to the benefit of those same groups. Malcanis' law is like reality, a real ***** Smile
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#96 - 2013-11-07 14:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Ryan
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


Oh and the sooner DUST is abandoned the better.

I can never work out why a game I do not play on a platform I do not own, should be allowed to have any impact on a game I do pay for and play.





+1 on getting rid of that dusty game. Lame!



I have PS3(s) in 3 different rooms and still don't play.



I can't wait for the new expansion, PS4. What's rubicorn?

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#97 - 2013-11-07 14:27:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Maybe you should do some research or explain if you are right why is it that the PCU this June, just finally got back to pre-Incarna levels.
Because Incarna nuked the population. It was a one-time dip, and other than that, the population is growing.

As for PCUs, they follow a very predictable weekly, monthly, and yearly pattern. Summers are high, trailing off during the beginning of autumn and then building right back up again as we get closer to the winter patch.

Quote:
Also you are aware that those subscriber numbers and the PCU include trial accounts right?
The PCUs do; the subscriber numbers never have — they only include active accounts (trials, by very definition, have not been activated).


Silly fact #1: despite Incarna, 2011 gave CCP their largest revenue growth ever.
Silly fact #2: EVE's average income per subscriber are 10,6 $ per month.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Prince Kobol
#98 - 2013-11-07 14:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Tippia wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Also if you look at each expansion right from the first Castor thought to Incusion (expect for maybe a couple) each brought something new and innovative which helps attract new players and keeps existing players.

Unless of course you are going to compare Rubicon to the likes of Exodus: Cold War, Exodus: Red Moon Rising, Trinity, Empyrean Age, Apocrypha, Dominion, Tyrannis, Incursion, Crucible.
Incursion should not be on that list, and it's a good example of why the expansion = more people idea doesn't work.

Incursion caused a short-live burst of more activity, but it was actually a pretty huge loss. The kind of content was exactly what people envision in their “expansion, not patch” spiels but in reality, it cause more people to leave the game. Based on what I've seen so far, Rubicon should definitely not be compared with Incursion, but for almost the exact opposite reason of what you're thinking: because it will increase the player count rather than hurt it the way Incursions did.

Rubicon is set to benefit pretty much every player in the game in some way, and thus to keep them around and attract more people. This compared to how Incursions only benefitted an utterly minuscule amount of people and made a lot of others leave. Ok, that's perhaps not entirely fair: the “patch” parts of Incursion created a great buzz and started to spin up the numbers since there was good stuff for almost everyone, but the “expansion” part then came along and quickly reversed that trend.

Quote:
Just for the record, taking 18 months to get back to where they were and also needing to add accounts from a separate game to do that is far from amazing.. if fact its actually pretty bad.
18 months for 10–15% growth is not “pretty bad” for a decade-old game. Again, I think you're underestimating the size of the hit the game took from Incursion and Incarna, and that's before we take into account the fact that you're effectively measuring from an over-inflated bubble that burst shortly after…


Really.. I'm pretty sure Incursion added quite a lot of content as well as a lot of under skin improvements.

Incursions introduced

Incursions
Noctis
Revenant
Client Customisations
Ammo Overhaul
Faction Ships available on the Market
40 New Missions added
Learning Skills Removed
Character Creation System
Massive Improvements to PI Interface
NPC AI Improvements
Remote Destructions of JC
Carbon Inventory
New DED Complexes
Visible Nullsec Truesec
Carbon UI
Server-side Ship Fittings
Enhanced Waypoint Markers
Improved Mass Repackaging
More Default Overview Layouts
NPC Electronic Warfare Updates
Improved Overview Settings
Sell/Buy Window Settings
Concord LP Store

and a shedload more improvements which overall improved the game play and accessibility Eve

It was also the start of CCP delivering expansions over a time period in smaller chunks to lessen bugs / problems

Rubicon offers no where near what Incursions did.

I can only go with you are now trolling which is no surprise.

As for the over inflated numbers.. that increase began on the 28/10/2010 on peaked on the 06/01/2011 so it wasn't like it was over night jump.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#99 - 2013-11-07 14:34:04 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I am looking forward to the changes Rubicon will make. All the ideas so far are very fine ones indeed and I will very much enjoy the warp speed changes and SoE ships.

Now for the bitter vet bit. The amount of new stuff is frankly **** and people are right, this doesn't compare to any other expansion. Even Incarna was better than this. It feels like CCP are putting all their development efforts on anything but Eve at the moment. They are probably trying to save Dust, and putting all their effort into that, not to forget Valkyrie.

well, we had expansion with less new content than this, but at least beside the new content, their ws massive improvment of already existing game mechanics and bug correction.

and for me, this was probably the best expansion.

here we have some new stuff, that i found "meh" at best, a game mechanic being improved (warp speed, i'm all for it, long overdue), and.....that's it....

if at least they fixed the many of the issues the game is having like the inconsistency in lock / modules activation, the broken grids etc.... things being reported for YEARS, i'd be happy.

but honnestly, the last two expansion are pushing me to look forward for a replacement to eve online, game is dumbed down, ships loosing their flavour and being "all the same" content being massively removed.....yeah...was cool and nice for the time it lasted
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2013-11-07 14:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Prince Kobol wrote:
Really.. I'm pretty sure Incursion added quite a lot of content as well as a lot of under skin improvements.
…and aside from the incursions themselves, all of those are the “patch”-level content that people are so fond of decrying. All of those features were stuck into the first point releases — the ones that made the population go up.

But then we come to the “expansion” part of the expansion — the one that everyone wants; the one that benefited very few; the one that made the population take a sharp turn downwards.

Quote:
It was also the start of CCP delivering expansions over a time period in smaller chunks to lessen bugs / problems
Actually, Apocrypha was. Hell, depending on how you define it, Revelations/Kali was.

Quote:
Rubicon offers no where near what Incursions did.
Agreed. That's a good thing. Rubicon offers the kinds of improvements that the first point releases of Incursion did (and the post-Incarna expansions) and none of the bad stuff that made the population suffer.

Quote:
I can only go with you are now trolling which is no surprise.
It should come as a huge surprise, partly because I don't troll, and partly because I'm not doing it now. I'm simply pointing out the actual sequence of events that took place during the Incursion-Incarna period. The one where “patch”-type additions to the game had a positive impact on the population and the “expansion”-type content caused people to leave.

Both in sharp contrast to the oft-made assumption that the opposite should be the case.