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PvE in this game is Not Fun.
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Richard Ramlrez
Doomheim
#81 - 2013-11-07 17:26:00 UTC
Digits Kho wrote:
I have been deeply thinking about this and i came to the conclusion that removing concord from hisec would be the first right step towards making hisec more sandbox-like



They could just remove hi-sec entirely.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#82 - 2013-11-07 19:09:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
For the people that play EvE for just the PvE content, they'd completely disagree. Highsec is there for exactly these people, those that don't have the time, inclination or desire to play any of the other aspects of the game. Sure, many people scream "PvP only game!" while exploding them, but it isn't going to change them, and nor should it. Everyone should be able to play EvE for whatever reason they enjoy. So improving PvE is a good thing, certainly for these players. Why would anyone that doesn't enjoy PvE have a problem with that?

Seems to me that everyone wants the sandbox to conform to their specific preferences, as if there is only one correct way to play. In reality, EvE allows for all play-styles.
I crossed out all the parts in your post that had nothing to do with what you quoted.

Now, would you like to expand on your first point? In particular, could you expand on it in the context of everyone + dog doing L4s when the kind of PvE content you're asking for already exists, and why the former should be transformed into the latter in spite of the evidence suggesting that such a change is not necessary (and could, in fact, be hugely counter-productive).

You're offering up a lot of “must”:s without really describing what's so obligatory about those kinds of change to that content.


Don't see you expanding on your point that "such a change is not necessary, and is counter-productive". Is this a stealth way of saying that purely PvE players are playing the game wrong? For players that play EvE for nothing but PvE, expanding and improving their play experience would be a great thing. It doesn't hurt anyone else who plays the game for different reasons, and enables them to get more enjoyment from the limited time they have in their busy lives.

As far as suggesting improvements, i'd go as far as to say that PvE in EvE is boring, and does need some love to make it better. How exactly that can be achieved isn't something i'm likely to solve instantly in a random thread. Like i previously mentioned, it needs some love, some out-of-the-box thinking. I can only hope there is someone in CCP that can answer that call. Not that it effects me mind, i grew totally bored of the grind-fest that is missions a loooong time ago. Shocked

Disagreeing with such an improvement for no reason just highlights the opinions of many players in EvE, that everyone should play for this reason or for that reason, basicly, that the sandbox should be exactly how they want it to be. The reality is EvE caters to all playstyles, and it's one of its greatest strengths.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Laserak
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-11-07 19:11:20 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Thomas Hurt wrote:
The PvE in this game is Not Fun. For most (normal) people, it is straight up chore to do any sort of ratting or missioning, and the only thing that makes it tolerable is bullshitting on voicechat with other people that are doing it with you. I humbly request that CCP do something to make the PvE in E.v.E. entertaining/engrossing/interesting and at least vaguely tolerable.


I've not played a single mmo where the PvE was fun.


The last time I had fun with PVE was raiding the Citadel of Anguish in EQ1.


Shortly after I discovered pvp
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#84 - 2013-11-07 19:15:52 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Don't see you expanding on your point that "such a change is not necessary, and is counter-productive".
Maybe you should read a bit closer then.

Quote:
For players that play EvE for nothing but PvE, expanding and improving their play experience would be a great thing.
One would think so, and yet the content on offer that provides exactly what you're asking for is much less popular than the supposedly boring L4s. This suggests that neither the problem nor the solution is what you say they are. In fact, it seems far more likely that the stripped-down nature of L4s is exactly what people want: no frills, no special considerations, no real thinking — just press button receive bacon ISK.

Again, the content you're asking for exists. There's no reason to alter (possibly ruin) some completely unrelated content to add more of the same.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#85 - 2013-11-07 19:20:08 UTC
Since you are at risk from the time you log in to the time you log out, there is no real PVE in this game.

If you wish to say missions are boring and simplistic though, you'll get no argument from me.

Mr Epeen Cool
Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
#86 - 2013-11-07 19:28:53 UTC
I still can't help laughing at the thread title


I'm not having fun with the game I'm playing
--- so the logical thing is to do is keep playing a game you don't like then complain about it?


I know you're trying to be a bit more subtle than that. but really, that's your message.. especially if you're not willing to hear how other people get in the zen of it all. Could the PVE be different? Sure.. but all games are different.. and you choose the ones you like. The do make some changes over time to stretch the interests of different people. That hasn't been the core purpose of the game so then need to be careful in allocating resources but Incursions have been one example. They have been working gradually on some out of ship portions of the game.. which took far more resources than I believe they anticipated. The PS3 dust501 is a move toward avatars and I think they hoped the walking in stations would have been far far far easier to iterate into interactive scenarios had they alligned their abitions an order of magnitude(or two) closer to existing computer processing/rendering power.

Still .. my first point .. ? lol? I can't help reading it like "Mom, I'm getting all wet outside!" "of course you are son, it's raining.. come on in and do something else"
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#87 - 2013-11-07 19:30:17 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
For the people that play EvE for just the PvE content, they'd completely disagree. Highsec is there for exactly these people, those that don't have the time, inclination or desire to play any of the other aspects of the game. Sure, many people scream "PvP only game!" while exploding them, but it isn't going to change them, and nor should it. Everyone should be able to play EvE for whatever reason they enjoy. So improving PvE is a good thing, certainly for these players. Why would anyone that doesn't enjoy PvE have a problem with that?

Seems to me that everyone wants the sandbox to conform to their specific preferences, as if there is only one correct way to play. In reality, EvE allows for all play-styles.
I crossed out all the parts in your post that had nothing to do with what you quoted.

Now, would you like to expand on your first point? In particular, could you expand on it in the context of everyone + dog doing L4s when the kind of PvE content you're asking for already exists, and why the former should be transformed into the latter in spite of the evidence suggesting that such a change is not necessary (and could, in fact, be hugely counter-productive).

You're offering up a lot of “must”:s without really describing what's so obligatory about those kinds of change to that content.


Don't see you expanding on your point that "such a change is not necessary, and is counter-productive". Is this a stealth way of saying that purely PvE players are playing the game wrong? For players that play EvE for nothing but PvE, expanding and improving their play experience would be a great thing. It doesn't hurt anyone else who plays the game for different reasons, and enables them to get more enjoyment from the limited time they have in their busy lives.

As far as suggesting improvements, i'd go as far as to say that PvE in EvE is boring, and does need some love to make it better. How exactly that can be achieved isn't something i'm likely to solve instantly in a random thread. Like i previously mentioned, it needs some love, some out-of-the-box thinking. I can only hope there is someone in CCP that can answer that call. Not that it effects me mind, i grew totally bored of the grind-fest that is missions a loooong time ago. Shocked

Disagreeing with such an improvement for no reason just highlights the opinions of many players in EvE, that everyone should play for this reason or for that reason, basicly, that the sandbox should be exactly how they want it to be. The reality is EvE caters to all playstyles, and it's one of its greatest strengths.


No, this is just you not understanding what is being said, and having no grasp of the situation. it's falling back on the "you should play EVE may way" fallacy that people like to throw out because they don't get why people have different opoins than they do.

Sorry, there is no secret agenda here. no one cares if you PVP or not. I'm a PVE player, I haven't been on a kill mail in months as you can see here from my main pvp toon's battleclinic page. If you aren't a Blood Raider, Serp of Sansha I'll probably leave you alone.

EVe's PVE isn't the most exciting thing ever, but it's fun to me and it fits in with what eve is, a game about PEOPLE not NPCs. It's a hobby and if people don't have proper time for a hobby, they should do something else. I make time for my hobby by generally not bothering with combat pvp lol.

What Tippia is trying to tell you is that EVE already has some pretty interesting and lucrative PVE content, even in high sec with exploration, incursions, epic missions, live events and cosmos. Most PVE players run missions....over and over and over again, ignoring the rest of this content. If they wanted better content, they'd go get it, even without having to leave high sec.

Or they could leave high sec and do crazy things with npcs in wormholes, DED plexes, lvl 5 missions, low and null cosmos sites, "unique" plexes like those scattered around that Constellation in Catch, null and low sec inursions, low and null sec missions that offer extreme loot (like Mach BPCs from Angel Cartel LP stores) etc etc etc.

But most don't most run high sec missions and save the "short bus special" damsel over and over again.

No, it's not the PVE community that wants "better" PVE, its YOU, so just say that. I think EVE PVE is fine as it is and it's getting better wiith the coming of the new Ghost sites and such.

And if I'm reading it correctly, Tippia is also pointing out that "patches, tweaks and fixes" to existing things is more helpful than "Jesus features" like what you seem to be asking for. people are complaining about Rubicon being more patch than expansion, but it's those "patchy" things that strengthen the game, were as true "expansions" have done less of that.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#88 - 2013-11-07 19:33:38 UTC
Shander Maxum wrote:
I still can't help laughing at the thread title


I'm not having fun with the game I'm playing
--- so the logical thing is to do is keep playing a game you don't like then complain about it?


Most EVE players aren't like that, it's a vocal minority that comes to the forums complaining. At the heart of most of those complaints are people unsuited to the kind of game EVE is wanting the game maker to shift the game in the direction they think will suit them instead of shifting their own backsides to a better (for them) game/pastime.

Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#89 - 2013-11-07 19:48:35 UTC
I like EVE the way it is.

Add new features though!

Again, the problem with what you're saying is that I still need to grind out standings by running missions in order to refine losslessly and how is the rest of the PVE content going to get around that? So I have to grind to get to the content I actually want.

I could do incursions instead... or explore... or any number of things... I would probably like them better. I'm stuck with missions.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#90 - 2013-11-07 19:49:35 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:
I like EVE the way it is.

Add new features though!

Again, the problem with what you're saying is that I still need to grind out standings by running missions in order to refine losslessly and how is the rest of the PVE content going to get around that? So I have to grind to get to the content I actually want.

I could do incursions instead... or explore... or any number of things... I would probably like them better. I'm stuck with missions.


How are you stuck with missions?
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#91 - 2013-11-07 19:50:37 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Well... that's the point.
PvE isn't supposed to be fun. It's just a small part of the game
that's not actually important, as you can observe.

It keeps cash cows ingame and helps PvPers make money.

That's it.

Can I make fun of you in public? At leats 1 hour .. pls...
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#92 - 2013-11-07 19:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mhax Arthie
forum crit 129 % = insta death = pls del
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2013-11-08 07:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Thomas Hurt wrote:
The PvE in this game is Not Fun. For most (normal) people, it is straight up chore to do any sort of ratting or missioning, and the only thing that makes it tolerable is bullshitting on voicechat with other people that are doing it with you. I humbly request that CCP do something to make the PvE in E.v.E. entertaining/engrossing/interesting and at least vaguely tolerable.


I've not played a single mmo where the PvE was fun.

I don't know. Fit up a 2 billion isk Ishtar, take wormhole out to some sov null area and run combat sites. Its pretty fun, you get the adrenaline flowing whenever someone comes into your system. Being warp scrammed by 15 elite frigs while a 10/10 overseer and 4 web towers have you pin and overseers shooting citadel torps at you.

You know if you don't kill those towers and frigs you'll be dead in short order and if someone comes in to system you're history.

But if you do things right, once you pop that overseer you'll be looting X-Type mods potentially worth billions.

Thats fun for me, mix of danger, skill, and pot luck involved. Last one I ran (6/10) dropped an A-Type Invul (1.5 billion) and altogether made 3.5 billion in one trip.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Octoven
Stellar Production
#94 - 2013-11-08 08:30:34 UTC
I think the issue is the lack of variety especially in missions. You get maybe what...30-40 different missions that rotate? They are the same no matter when you run them. It would be nice to implement a set of choices through all the missions leading to other options sort of like the arcs do...but on a smaller scale. It would certainly add more variety then exist atm.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#95 - 2013-11-08 09:33:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
Jenn aSide wrote:

EVe's PVE isn't the most exciting thing ever, but it's fun to me and it fits in with what eve is, a game about PEOPLE not NPCs. It's a hobby and if people don't have proper time for a hobby, they should do something else. I make time for my hobby by generally not bothering with combat pvp lol.

What Tippia is trying to tell you is that EVE already has some pretty interesting and lucrative PVE content, even in high sec with exploration, incursions, epic missions, live events and cosmos. Most PVE players run missions....over and over and over again, ignoring the rest of this content. If they wanted better content, they'd go get it, even without having to leave high sec.


Its definately a game about people. The sort of people that just run missions all the time are (sometimes!) the sort that don't have the time in the real-world to do all the other things you've listed. I'm sorry but playing computer games does not make a hobby. Maybe if you're the sort that puts tons of time and effort in, but for the sort of players i'm talking about this is not what they're after. Logging in for some relaxing gameplay is all they're interested in, and if it can be improved upon further then all the better. Saying no to such a suggestion because "it already exists" doesn't work, as it doesn't exist for them. PvE is boring!! Definitely needs to love and improvement. Such an improvement wouldn't effect those that don't PvE, but they moan about it anyways, usually without being able to explain why.

Tippia wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Don't see you expanding on your point that "such a change is not necessary, and is counter-productive".
Maybe you should read a bit closer then.


Yeah i figured you wouldn't be able to explain yourself. Better luck next time! Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2013-11-08 09:55:29 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Yeah i figured you wouldn't be able to explain yourself.
You figured wrong, since the explanation has already been given. You've just chosen not to read it and instead keep going on unrelated and irrelevant tangents.

Re-read the posts you've quoted. In particular, re-read the parts you didn't respond to. It's all there.

A failure to read on your part does not constitute an inability to explain things on my part — at most, it highlights my unwillingness to repeat things for a fourth time. You had your chance; you failed; you now have to resort to red herrings.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#97 - 2013-11-08 09:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
Logging in for some relaxing gameplay is all they're interested in, and if it can be improved upon further then all the better. Saying no to such a suggestion because "it already exists" doesn't work, as it doesn't exist for them. PvE is boring!!


If all they are interested in is relaxing gameplay... why do they care if it's boring? Boring and exciting are antonyms. Ergo, the less boring it is, the more exciting it is.

And excitement and relaxation don't precisely go hand in hand.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#98 - 2013-11-08 11:06:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:

There is PvE content in the game that does what you want, but it's not nearly as popular as the content that does not.

Now, would you like to expand on your first point? In particular, could you expand on it in the context of everyone + dog doing L4s when the kind of PvE content you're asking for already exists, and why the former should be transformed into the latter in spite of the evidence suggesting that such a change is not necessary (and could, in fact, be hugely counter-productive).

Tippia wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Don't see you expanding on your point that "such a change is not necessary, and is counter-productive".
Maybe you should read a bit closer then.


Tippia wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Yeah i figured you wouldn't be able to explain yourself.
You figured wrong, since the explanation has already been given. You've just chosen not to read it and instead keep going on unrelated and irrelevant tangents.

Re-read the posts you've quoted. In particular, re-read the parts you didn't respond to. It's all there..

A failure to read on your part does not constitute an inability to explain things on my part — at most, it highlights my unwillingness to repeat things for a fourth time. You had your chance; you failed; you now have to resort to red herrings.


Well here it is, your grand explanation and contribution to this thread. Notice you're failure to explain why "such a change is not necessary (and could, in fact, be hugely counter-productive).", followed by your failure to explain it specifically when asked directly, finally finishing by claiming that you did explain it, even though you didn't. Shocked

Not my place to make your point for you, my friend. But feel free to try again. Maybe fifth times the charm! Cool

The only point you seem to have made is that PvE content, that i assume you consider to be "not boring", already exists, and that these players that have limited play times should just get out there and do them. I, on the otherhand, disagree. Not only do they not have the time to do many of the different types of PvE that aren't highsec missioning, but the others are just as boring. Let me ask you again, directly, what would be the harm in improving PvE experiences for those that play EvE for just that reason and no other? How would it be hugely counter-productive?

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#99 - 2013-11-08 11:36:24 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Well here it is, your grand explanation and contribution to this thread.
Nope. You're still missing it.

A failure to read on your part does not constitute a failure to explain on my part. Try actually reading my posts rather than skipping over them when they prove you wrong.

Quote:
But feel free to try again. Maybe fifth times the charm!
No. You've had all the chances you need. You have shown that you are not willing to address the points being made.

Your question has already been answered. Would you like to actually respond to that answer?
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#100 - 2013-11-08 11:46:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Well here it is, your grand explanation and contribution to this thread.
Nope. You're still missing it.

A failure to read on your part does not constitute a failure to explain on my part. Try actually reading my posts rather than skipping over them when they prove you wrong.

Quote:
But feel free to try again. Maybe fifth times the charm!
No. You've had all the chances you need. You have shown that you are not willing to address the points being made.

Your question has already been answered. Would you like to actually respond to that answer?


I've quoted everything you said, nice and condensed for you, and directly asked for you to backup your opinion, specifically about how it could be counter-productive to improve PvE content. Should be nice and easy to highlight! But as you've failed, again, I'll just go ahead and assume you have an opinion on this subject, and are simply unable or unwilling to back it up.

Thanks for the effort though, always good to see people posting even if it doesn't contribute to the thread!

Personally, i see no harm in improving PvE content, would make all the players that play EvE for only that aspect enjoy the game even more! And who doesn't like making people happy? Big smile

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.