Market Discussions

Thanks for the offer VV but I have always been against auditors working for free. If Block wants proof that I can earn 10bil a month then he can pay the market rate for that data. I would be surprised if anyone else doubts I can hit the target I am aiming at. After all, I was earning 2.7bil a week a month after I started playing the game, as my very first audit showed.

I must say i support Block Ukx been around longtime, always been honest and reasonable i believe.

Same old faces same old elites. They recommend there own non collaterized bonds and those of their friends with very low interest rates. When you try to do the same, be treated the same no you cant do that Tom. You dont deserve a low interest rate non collaterized bond you have to pay 10, 13 15 per cent. Even though you proven to them that you are trustworthy with evidence, that you have handled alot of isk not stolen it.

I remember the guys who lent me isk im grateful, i did the first ever gambling bond with poker, and MarchRabbit lent me isk for the non collaterized bond i ran at very low interest rate(3%), but only what other elites were also getting at the time. Elites they did there best to put people off from lending me the isk. Just want to be given fair shake, treated the same as others.

Im glad you guys never gave me any isk , i wouldnt take it now if you tried to force it on me. I did things my way the hardway because guys like you dont like guys like me, want to be treated fair just like everyone else. You never got any interest out of Tommy.

I made my isk i dont generally hang here no more. Hopefully ill never have to come here again asking for isk. Made me laugh to see the old elites still spouting out the same old bull.

30billion isk non collaterized Bond 5% not one person says it to low. Oh it ones of your palls its the old boys network. If it was you trying this , even if you had proof of being trustworthy the indigantion of these people here would be unbelievable. Absolute uproar. Kinda ironic that you wont let Block audit you after all the hassle you gave him. He asks the same of you and you refuse.

I don't know where you purchased all that amount of butthurt, but you are talking about people who stopped playing 2 years ago.

5% is low? Does not seem so, otherwise RAW23 would not get his bond filled, didn't he?

Do you truly believe that those loaning ISK to RAW23 are all fools who just give up to 10-15% interest rates? Because of sweet hearts? Or is it because they KNOW that RAW23 cost-of-risk is so low that people WILL rush and fill him leaving them out?


Look the same days what happened when a "too low" argument has risen: 1.5% for collateralized loans has been commented as too low and the Investee had to up the reward or not fill it.




There's not a democracy here, there's no fairness nor welfare nor "rights" in EvE that you don't grab with your bare teeth.

In EvE you become what you are. In EvE you are your hard cap.

My first and only public investment was 100B at 2% with no collateral at all expandable to 140B and this in addition to VAERT funds and endless collaterals for 3rd parties I hold.

Did it happen because it was fair? Because I had the right?
Or is it because I have spent years enjoying this community and trying to bring in something of mine into it and apparently a number of people appreciated it?

Edit: and what about RAW23? And Rykker Bow? And Flakeys? And Grendell? And Chribba? And TornSoul?

ALL of them are outstanding people I'd totally LOVE to befriend in RL.
They are not the MD Elites (extinct years ago), they are people worth offering a free audit to and also some easily AFK farmed ISK.

Maybe hadn't you slammed the door and had endured, now you'd be the 30B @5% guy.

Your attitude and chagrin capped you.
And I am not telling you as criticism, but to harshly yet sincerely try make you open your eyes and leave the "head on rails" unidirectional thinking.

I found Block's comments to be fairly reasonable. Block never resorted to ad hominem attacks. You started the name calling and insults against Block fairly quick. Who is the one with the grudge?

I don't know if Block has a grudge against you or not. Even if he did, it doesn't make his comments less valid. For someone that clearly has an ability to make vast amounts of ISK, asking for a mere 30b does seem strange. I also was surprised that for someone of your ability, you only had 400b ISK to give away.



Could you provide proof of his public history of deception that you claim exists?

You seem to be afflicted with the same difficulty in grasping temporal sequences as Block. The ability to make the isk requires first having the 30bil. There is nothing 'strange' about first getting the capital and then making the isk. It is precisely the same order of events that was necessary for Block's own offerings. First you raise the isk, then you put the business plan into action. Unless you both share a time machine I fail to see how you can fail to grasp this simple point. If a plan requires capital that you do not possess, the fact that the plan can make isk in the future does not remove the need for possession of the start-up isk in the present.



The thing is, being able to make 100 billion a month is not the same thing as wanting to make 100 billion a month. I have been able to make these kinds of returns for a long time. The problem is that doing so is both boring and time-consuming while at the same time I have no real need for that kind of income. Why, then, would I waste my time not enjoying myself in order to make huge piles of cash? Just because I can? Isk is not the be all and end all for me. When I first started playing my ambition was to become a trillionaire. Once I had completed the challenge of working out how to do that I found that I had no desire at all to actually do the boring, repetitive and unchallenging work of amassing pointless amounts of isk. So I stopped. The only strange thing here is that neither you nor Block seem able to grasp the point I have repeatedly made that there is a huge difference between potential earnings and the actual earnings that I choose to pursue. You too could have these earnings, by the way. I'm happy to sell you a business plan according to which you could earn 100 billion a month by grinding isk for 6-8 hours a day. Would it be 'strange' if you didn't want to do that?




I will give three examples:

1) In this thread Block has made claims on my behalf and when I have denied that I have made such claims he has deliberately misquoted my words, editing them in order to try to make them look as if they support his claims while the portions he removed explicitly denied what he was saying (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3848515#post3848515). That is outright dishonest and the intention was clearly deceptive. Incidentally, it was only at that point in the thread that I started doing what you call 'making ad hominem attacks' and what I would call 'offering accurate assessments of his character and reliability'.

2) One example from Block's public business dealings. He stated a) that his board of directors had developed a plan that would be discussed but would not proceed unless it received approval from the shareholders; b) he announced that the shareholders had approved the plan; c) when I asked him if the directors controlled sufficient shares to make the vote a foregone conclusion he didn't say yes but instead said I could see who the shareholders were by examining the public roster; d) on examination of the roster it appeared as if the directors did not have a controlling interest; e) but a lucky bit of searchfu turned up the fact that the shareholder with 60% of the shares was in fact an alt of one of the directors; f) only at which point did he admit that the shareholder vote could never have departed from the decisions of the directors.
(http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1445225&page=9#241)

At best, this was an intellectually dishonest response to the question. At worst it was a deliberate attempt to deceive, since the clear implication of all that had gone before was that the decision of the shareholders was something independent from the suggestion of the plan by the directors. His answers to that particular question were on a par with his deceitful attempts to evade scrutiny throughout the rest of that thread.

3) Then, of course, there was the audit that he was going to get to confirm that BSAC's holdings were sufficient to cover their public exposure. Despite a lot of song and dance and various stages of evasion, it never turned up. His behaviour over that particular matter was riddled with dishonesty.

Makes sense, you need ISK to make ISK. Completely understandable. I guess I had a hard time understanding that was the point you were trying to make earlier.



Again, understandable that you got bored with the process of making large sums of ISK. I do take exception to you claim that I fail to see the difference between potential earnings and actual earnings. I never made such a statement.

I'm well aware of business plans that make 100 billion a month. Many of which don't require grinding for 6-8 hours a day. But again, it takes ISK to make that kind of ISK without grinding.



Stating you currently make 100b a month was factually incorrect. That one Block either mis-spoke or was not understanding the situation. I don't think he was intentionally trying to mislead.



His answer was "The BOD has a significantly large stake in CSF" Significantly large would imply over 50%. In that case it would be you not understanding what Block was meaning. Block's statement was vague enough that I can see how confusion could occur.



I remember that well. I know the reason behind why he was reluctant to give a full audit to a third party. I'm not sure if can publicly state the reason or not. His reason was completely valid and had nothing to do with anything being a scam.

Yeah like , who could ever get a gambling bond/loan off the ground .... hold on Ac wasn't me loaning isk for your first bond going to ...



nevermind carry on ...

That's because it isn't too low. Why don't you mention that fully collaterized bond by a very respectable player where people did say "not gonna give you money for the interest rate you're offering"? Because that wouldn't fit your narrative, right? Just like all the reference to the "Elites" and "old boys network" from a time when none here were posting on this forum, except for... ehm... you and Block. Oops, let's ignore that fact and complain anyway.

Yeah, the buttdiscomfort over perceived internet spaceships finance reputation slights is pretty sad, especially considering the time-frames involved.

That said, this thread is a great reminder why this odd and arcane cultural practice is better left in its current moldering state instead of being revived as some sort of zombie to wreak havoc on this poor subforum again.

Someone got back first with gas instead