EVE General Discussion

You are pathetic!

I thought these were top grade tears until I saw who wrote them. Masterful troll, Destiny.

How dare someone use legitimate in-game means to resolve a disagreement about the game. Especially when they could opt to use namecalling like "childish", or indeed "pathetic", instead! How vile, nay barbaric, some people are!

Really? I thought obvious troll was obvious and I don't know Destiny.

Not only is it anecdotal, and an inductive fallacy, but it does not offer any sort of rationale for maintaining the current wardec costs. The bolded part is certainly true. But on the other hand, you're back to the same tired argument that any change which would help retain new players would destroy the game. It is, however, a very cool story bro.



How can you reach that conclusion when no numbers have been suggested? If war decs were doubled in cost, would it "kill wardeccing for small corps?" What if it was tripled? What if it merely started at the same level but scaled up much more quickly as more corps are decced? Would any of this "kill" small corp wardeccing? I kinda doubt it. Frankly, the OP sounds like a newer player and we all know that most new players have a warped sense of what "a lot of ISK" actually means now days on Eve. Also, the OP was clear that the intent was NOT to "kill wardecs" and that he understands how imporant wardecs are to the game, so I think you are exaggerating for the purpose of making your point and derail the argument instead of viewing it practically.



Ah, there it is. I suppose, considering the forum, that you should be congratulated for waiting until your third post before resorting to ad hominem attacks.

Everything that follows is a straw man argument. You're switching from the specific subject of increasing wardec costs to improve new player retention to the general subject of "should we make Eve 'safer'" which of course is a platform upon which many people will side with you. We all like our "dangerous" Eve. However, what is being suggested will not turn Eve from a dangerous game to a safe game. It will not turn Eve into WoW, nor will the sky fall. In essence you are arguing that anything that makes Eve "safer" will fundamentally change the game in a bad way. That's simply not true, and the evidence that you're wrong can be found in the dev notes throughout the entire history of the game. The latest SIGNIFICANT increase in costs to wardecs, improvements to CONCORD response, making newbie systems off limits to can baiting, changes to loot mechanics, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. Each change was met with exactly the same kind of alarmist generalizations and predictions of failure that you're offering, and yet, here we are, 2013, and Eve is still dangerous, still running, still popular, and still very bloody.



Again, you're taking an "all or nothing" stance, which is just another way to frame the same old false dilemma. "You must choose between the current wardec system or PVE only!" Hogwash. Increasing the costs of wardecs does not equal turning Eve into a PVE-only game. Of course no one wants to kill PVP, so why go on a rant about how bad PVE is? How is that relevant? No one is suggesting that we remove the "fear of loss". There will still be wardecs. You're focusing on the words "last resort" to counter my argument...subjective language that I didn't use...and using that language to prop up an argument that any discussion of increasing wardec costs is toxic enough to kill the game. Sorry, but that's just not true.

Can you agree that increasing wardec costs might not necessarily be a game killer? Or is your position "OP used the words 'last resort' so we can't have this discussion at all?"

They are not genuine PVPers at all. If they genuinely wanted PVP they should go out to low sec on roams and the like; they'd get a far better challenge than taking on players who have little experience in that, or even miners/traders who you seem to think makes them genuine PVPers.

They are the lazy ones, too lazy to find a proper fight!

EXACTLY. The tiny grief corp can wardec dozens of industrialist corps having hundreds of players, and the miners and missioners can't do anything at all, but the griefers can play normally. THIS IS NOT BALANCE. At least when big pvp corps wardec other big industrial corps, it's an even and fair fight, so everyone knows what to expect. But when small corps do it, the big industrial corps get killed because they aren't concerned with the wars due to their massive numerical advantage that enables them to not pay attention to such trivial matters. This is a perfect example of the GRIEF TACTICS and EXPLOITATION that these small griefer corps full of antisocial wanna-be gangsters employ to break the game for everyone else. The fact that their war costs are practically free means that they can exercise unlimited predatory power over law-abiding players and there's nothing and nobody to stop them. The costs should be high enough so that these wars NEVER HAPPEN unless both parties agree to them (like training for sanctioned 0.0 pvp for example). And furthermore, only the big corps should be able to afford to declare wars because they are the only ones possessing the necessary management skills needed to organize people and capital to be successful. That's why they're big, unlike those run by bottom-feeding scumbag social rejects who will never find success in anything they do, and therefore try to take out their frustrations on well-adjusted members of the community. Seriously, have you ever seen these degenerates do anything that contributes to the game universe, like building stations, or protecting the empires from the Sansha threat? I know I haven't. I don't know whether CCP is shortsighted or simply too stupid to see what kind of negative impact this current system has on their game, but hopefully they'll wake up to the danger soon.


OMG this is so perfect, I haven't even thought of it. All we have to do is stop buying PLEXes and selling them on the market, and the griefers will be forced to quit the game because the dumb kids don't have jobs anyway and can only sub by stealing and griefing. Then we can simply make ISK by selling ships and modules instead of PLEXes because there's not going to be anyone left to destroy our goods the second we undock. And CCP would get much more exposure for their game because there will be no more stories in the media about ganking and stealing that turn potential players off from the game. Subscriptions will skyrocket because everyone will be able to have fun playing this game instead of others while they wait out their war timers. I'm going to tell all my friends to do this from now on.

Aren't you ignoring the fact that new players face a steep learning curve, and that it takes time to learn Eve PVP? Or do you think you're living in The Matrix and new players can just "download" all of the necessary knowledge into their brains in a matter of hours?

Well now I disagree there DC. Whether this is another deliberate troll or not I'll try and answer this seriously.

Eve players do not want World Of Warcraft hold-your-hand, wet nursing to the level you just stated. You need that edge to Eve, the danger=the thrill, just like driving a fast car, it might crash. If you want a nice, safe, "bubble" then play WoW.

I also do not propose that only big PVP corps could afford to wardec and smaller ones not. That's unfair!

There is a middle-ground between the sublime and the ridiculous and it's up to CCP to find the right level. Put a limit on number of wardecs at any given time for example, or make them more expensive for each additional one. That won't put small PVP corps out-of-business.

Small PVP outfits have a right to play the game the way they see fit: CCP have the duty to get the game mechanics right so it will be more popular and encourage new players to form their own corps without getting wardecced too readily.

And you are not screaming on the forums here??!!