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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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Author
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#461 - 2013-11-12 21:46:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

It's simply about not wanting to "put up with" certain kinds of people, the sort that we go out of our way not to have to put up with IRL (or club like baby seals where there are no witnesses when a situation that looks like an accident is untenable).

:stare:

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Violet Crumble
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#462 - 2013-11-12 21:53:10 UTC
Burning Furry wrote:
Humans by nature will not declare war without having a reasonable assurance of victory.


Where did this piece of non-wisdom come from?

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Katarina Panatri
Doomheim
#463 - 2013-11-13 00:17:40 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
Humans by nature will not declare war without having a reasonable assurance of victory.


Where did this piece of non-wisdom come from?


Looks like someone confused humans and logical creatures
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#464 - 2013-11-13 02:08:34 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


4 man newbie corp gets war-decced by a 50 man l33t pvp corp for funsies.

Tell me.....what else can be done bar docking up? Given that i'm not a sadomasochist?
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#465 - 2013-11-13 02:10:41 UTC
J'Poll wrote:

You think CCP values your 1 sub
.


You think ccp values yours?

Given that the "high-sec carebears" vastly outnumber your "l33t pvp'ers"?
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#466 - 2013-11-13 02:13:59 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
Humans by nature will not declare war without having a reasonable assurance of victory.


Where did this piece of non-wisdom come from?


Yup.

People attack people bigger than them out of habit. Uh-huh, yessiree....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#467 - 2013-11-13 03:45:17 UTC
Burning Furry wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


4 man newbie corp gets war-decced by a 50 man l33t pvp corp for funsies.

Tell me.....what else can be done bar docking up? Given that i'm not a sadomasochist?


Since they're newbies, their corp doesn't matter to them at all.

They can drop corp, and reform, and it will cost them, what, 2 million isk?

Also, "because I can" is a valid reason in a sandbox game. So if a pvp corp decs them just for fun, that is perfectly valid, and acceptable.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Col Arran
Doomheim
#468 - 2013-11-13 04:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Col Arran
War is what brought me to EVE, I saw it said screw that and went to WH space. Haven't been out since.

So no it didn't make leave EVE but it made me leave New Eden.
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#469 - 2013-11-13 08:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Burning Furry
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


4 man newbie corp gets war-decced by a 50 man l33t pvp corp for funsies.

Tell me.....what else can be done bar docking up? Given that i'm not a sadomasochist?


Since they're newbies, their corp doesn't matter to them at all.

They can drop corp, and reform, and it will cost them, what, 2 million isk?

Also, "because I can" is a valid reason in a sandbox game. So if a pvp corp decs them just for fun, that is perfectly valid, and acceptable.


Of course it's valid, as in it's allowed, but does it drive newbie away from eve? absolutely. Whether that then is acceptable is another matter entirely.

It's a simple fact that people like to have ownership in the games they play. This is evident in the huge boom in indie gaming, open alphas, in the csm etc. They want to feel that what they own/do in the game matters and that they have some say in how things are run.

It's irrelevant if they can do all the same stuff in a NPC corp. If they go that route then they don't have their own little slice of new eden, they have everyone elses.
How does it feel to know the only way to get around these war decs they can't possibly face, is to destroy and rebuild what they built? I can tell you it's not a nice feeling. This goes back to OP's original point. This feeling of helplessness, this feeling that your stuff matters little and less in the face of the pvp corps lulzies does and will continue to drive people and sub money away from the game. Agree or not, it happens. And lost sub money helps nobody.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#470 - 2013-11-13 08:57:05 UTC
Burning Furry wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

You think CCP values your 1 sub
.


You think ccp values yours?

Given that the "high-sec carebears" vastly outnumber your "l33t pvp'ers"?


Shows how much of this is actually just you and other carebears whining.

Im not a leet pvp player, hell in the last 1.5 years I havent undocked.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#471 - 2013-11-13 08:58:40 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Burning Furry wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


4 man newbie corp gets war-decced by a 50 man l33t pvp corp for funsies.

Tell me.....what else can be done bar docking up? Given that i'm not a sadomasochist?


Since they're newbies, their corp doesn't matter to them at all.

They can drop corp, and reform, and it will cost them, what, 2 million isk?

Also, "because I can" is a valid reason in a sandbox game. So if a pvp corp decs them just for fun, that is perfectly valid, and acceptable.


Of course it's valid, as in it's allowed, but does it drive newbie away from eve? absolutely. Whether that then is acceptable is another matter entirely.

It's a simple fact that people like to have ownership in the games they play. This is evident in the huge boom in indie gaming, open alphas, in the csm etc. They want to feel that what they own/do in the game matters and that they have some say in how things are run.

It's irrelevant if they can do all the same stuff in a NPC corp. If they go that route then they don't have their own little slice of new eden, they have everyone elses.
How does it feel to know the only way to get around these war decs they can't possibly face, is to destroy and rebuild what they built? I can tell you it's not a nice feeling. This goes back to OP's original point. This feeling of helplessness, this feeling that your stuff matters little and less in the face of the pvp corps lulzies does and will continue to drive people and sub money away from the game. Agree or not, it happens. And lost sub money helps nobody.


Those 4 noobs could have read a thing or 2 about corps before forming one. As all the info regarding corps clearly states you can be wardecced.

Lets go to Vegas as you can win big money in casinos and then rage when you lose money in the process.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#472 - 2013-11-13 09:36:39 UTC
Burning Furry wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


4 man newbie corp gets war-decced by a 50 man l33t pvp corp for funsies.

Tell me.....what else can be done bar docking up? Given that i'm not a sadomasochist?



Funny as this stereotype come sso often. As someone that lives in a corp that lives for wars, I can tell you that when such a tiny corp is war declared is because one of their members was a @##!@#2 enough to deserve it.

On the rest, is very rare that corps under 30-40 members get wars.


They could undokc in cheap ships and have FUN, there is nothing madochist about it.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#473 - 2013-11-13 09:38:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


4 man newbie corp gets war-decced by a 50 man l33t pvp corp for funsies.

Tell me.....what else can be done bar docking up? Given that i'm not a sadomasochist?


Since they're newbies, their corp doesn't matter to them at all.

They can drop corp, and reform, and it will cost them, what, 2 million isk?

Also, "because I can" is a valid reason in a sandbox game. So if a pvp corp decs them just for fun, that is perfectly valid, and acceptable.



Just a point, droppign the corps and reformign the exact same corp to avoid a war IS petitionable. You can hoop, but not do that.



What we need are mechanics that PUSh peopel into making LARGER corps not 4 people corps.

MEchanics like NPC corp tax risen to 50% and player corp taxes at 30% with -2% per player on the corp.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#474 - 2013-11-13 09:40:32 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Wardeccing is already too expensive, and the returns too little.

The fact that people are begging for it to be made even worse is horrific.

What war decs need in order to improve them is NOT to make them more costly to the aggressor, and NOT to make them even less interesting or effective. What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


Yeah, what hisec needs is an actual benefit to being in a player corp, not just a tax break. Joining a player corp should open a whole new world of gameplay, one that is worth fighting to defend.



THAT! If ccp cna manage to do that.. it would mean much more to the game than the last 4 expansions combined!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#475 - 2013-11-13 09:45:12 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
If they leave because of a basic game mechanic, then it's no loss.

Exactly because a basic game mechanic could never never be a bad idea that needs updating. And customers leaving taking their cash with them. Pfft, what business needs customers right?

But you got to spew another knee jerk answer though...


Kagura Nikon wrote:


Nope. we war dec to make money. Increasign it to 100M woudl cripple this economy.

No one war decs a 3-4 member corp for 50 mil unless a member has pissed them. Its not effective. We look for a t least 20 members to make a war.


Your idea is horrible and comes form someoen clueless.

The opposite shoudl be made!

THe problem is on the amssive ammount fo under 10 peopel corps in this game.


That is FIRVOLOUS are NPC corps and tiny persnal coprs where only 1 character live.

NPC COrps shoudl ahve a 50% Tax rate. Your won corp shoudl have 40%, reducing by 1 % per memgber!

You clearly need a Gibberish to English dictionary...



Write in portuguese, and spanish and german better than how I type in English and then you can complain. The world is far larger than a lonely island hovering over europe and that huge hat that MExico wears.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#476 - 2013-11-13 12:42:11 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

You think CCP values your 1 sub
.


You think ccp values yours?

Given that the "high-sec carebears" vastly outnumber your "l33t pvp'ers"?


Shows how much of this is actually just you and other carebears whining.

Im not a leet pvp player, hell in the last 1.5 years I havent undocked.



Does it matter to me how often you undock?

I said you were in support of the pvp'ers not that you actually are one. There is a simple language difference there.
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#477 - 2013-11-13 12:46:21 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What war decs need is the ability to provoke actual conflict and not just docking up


4 man newbie corp gets war-decced by a 50 man l33t pvp corp for funsies.

Tell me.....what else can be done bar docking up? Given that i'm not a sadomasochist?


Since they're newbies, their corp doesn't matter to them at all.

They can drop corp, and reform, and it will cost them, what, 2 million isk?

Also, "because I can" is a valid reason in a sandbox game. So if a pvp corp decs them just for fun, that is perfectly valid, and acceptable.



Just a point, droppign the corps and reformign the exact same corp to avoid a war IS petitionable. You can hoop, but not do that.



What we need are mechanics that PUSh peopel into making LARGER corps not 4 people corps.

MEchanics like NPC corp tax risen to 50% and player corp taxes at 30% with -2% per player on the corp.


How does that help?

We already see the issues with massive power blocs in the game. Look to 0.0 and see all the empty unused space....Claimed but unused.

If people come to the game looking to play with friends and have a corp for just them, with rules (or not) that they agree on together, where is the benefit to forcing them to join larger corps where they don't get to make such decisions?

In a larger corp it's inevitably the no-life neckbeards without jobs or social lives who can give the time to become decision makers in the corp. This is hardly conducive to players with limited playtime.
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#478 - 2013-11-13 12:48:12 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

They could undokc in cheap ships and have FUN, there is nothing madochist about it.


Guaranteed loos is not fun, by any definition. Trying to call guaranteed destruction enjoyable is indeed sociopathic or sado.

It's like passion of the christ. "Oh yes, good sir, whip me more, i loves its!"
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#479 - 2013-11-13 12:50:51 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
[quote=Burning Furry]

Those 4 noobs could have read a thing or 2 about corps before forming one. As all the info regarding corps clearly states you can be wardecced.

Lets go to Vegas as you can win big money in casinos and then rage when you lose money in the process.


Well done, you can read a manual....

You're straying away from the topic of the thread.

I have given my reasons as to why i believe that WAR drives players away (albeit a certain kind of player).

Other than simply parrot on current mechanics and how we should like it or leave it, try your hand at answering the topic.

How do you specifically believe war does NOT drive players away?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#480 - 2013-11-13 12:58:39 UTC
Maybe it's time for this old thread again.