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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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Rekon X
Doomheim
#321 - 2013-11-07 22:36:21 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Rekon X wrote:
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:

I have heard of many people leaving Eve, rather than do any of the alternatives mentioned. After several wardecs they have grown tired of the losses, inconvenience, and the ease at which a hostile corp can wardec so many others with a relatively minimal initial outlay.


True. I haven't played much but I've seen a few leave.

A large part of high sec wardecs are about lamer corps scouting out weak indy, mining, new player corps and declaring war on them for easy targets. The game even has an alliance/corp for newbs to go into for training, but the lamers wardec that also. I mean really, are you that pathetic?

I've always thought EVEUNI should be immune to wardec. I was in corp chat and someone a couple of weeks old was looking for a corp, I mentioned EVEUNI, but noticed they were wardeced.


All in all, they probably do the gaming community a favor by driving players out of this game.



Why should EVEUNI be immune to wardec, they are just a player corp like any other in EVE.

And EVEUNI at least has people who can fight back, so you won't hear them complain about a wardec, and they consist mainly of new players.


Now let's take the most perfect example....

Brave Newbies Inc.


They were build by new player, had mainly new players in there, gained a lot of exposure by news articles etc.

Then they received wardecs...Did those guys all leave EVE, nope they stood up, fought and won. They manned up and showed that they were not to be ****** with...And ever since they are recognized by many as fearless PvP guys.


You missed the "All in all, they probably do the gaming community a favor by driving players out of this game."

So, no reason to change imo.

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#322 - 2013-11-07 22:44:34 UTC
Also. Dont get me wrong. I too think that people wardeccing newbies are lame and SHOULD pick on people that at least have a slight ability to fight back.

But I dont agree with that the wardec mechanic is broken. Its working correctly, and if you as a newb started your corp and get wardecced you can easily drop to NPC corp to get rid of it. By running a corp / or joining one, you agree to that part of the game that also includes wardecs. If that isnt your kind of gameplay, dont do it and stay in a NPC corp. Or build a corp and keep low enough profile to not make yourself a target.

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Princess Bride
SharkNado
#323 - 2013-11-07 22:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
J'Poll wrote:

You asked for links, after I said that CCP already has rules to protect new players.

So besides not being able to read, having a low IQ, you also have the memory of a goldfish and can't remember stuff for more then 3 seconds.

You can't stop to amaze me.


Your original post time:
#287 Posted: 2013.11.07 19:27

The time of the post quoted above:
#345 Posted: 2013.11.07 22:28

Three seconds you say? Even if I do have a low IQ, and the memory of a goldfish, at least I can tell time.

What you were saying, in full, was that CCP already has rules to protect new players...FROM WARDECS. As a matter of fact, the exact wording you used was, "I'm quoting an official GM here. So there you go, you now have the official statement of CCP regarding wardecs vs new players." You went on to quote the specific situation of a wardecced noob, and that attacking a noob like that is PETITIONABLE.

And now you are saying that CCP was not addressing the subject of wardecs?! Make up your mind please, because it can't be both true and false.

(PS: One day I WILL stop to amaze you.)

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#324 - 2013-11-07 22:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

You asked for links, after I said that CCP already has rules to protect new players.

So besides not being able to read, having a low IQ, you also have the memory of a goldfish and can't remember stuff for more then 3 seconds.

You can't stop to amaze me.


Your original post time:
#287 Posted: 2013.11.07 19:27

The time of the post quoted above:
#345 Posted: 2013.11.07 22:28

Three seconds you say? Even if I do have a low IQ, and the memory of a goldfish, at least I can tell time.

What you were saying, in full, was that CCP already has rules to protect new players...FROM WARDECS. As a matter of fact, the exact wording you used was, "I'm quoting an official GM here. So there you go, you now have the official statement of CCP regarding wardecs vs new players." You went on to quote the specific situation of a wardecced noob, and that attacking a noob like that is PETITIONABLE.

And now you are saying that CCP was not addressing the subject of wardecs?! Make up your mind please, because it can't be both true and false.

(PS: One day I WILL stop to amaze you.)


It is the official statement of CCP in relation to wardecs: You are not forced to be in the corp, you can always leave for the NPC corp.

and where in my wording do I say that CCP is protecting New Players AGAINST wardecs. I said, h
there you go, here is CCPs official statement regarding newbies and wars. I NEVER claimed that CCP was shielding them from wardecs by rules.

Then again, if you are alone in your private corp as a newbie, the wardec can also be interpreted as being directed at you (the new player) directly, cause there is nobody else to shoot. This is then again, against the rules as those say you can not pick on a player who doesnt have a lot of knowledge of the game mechanics and that CCP will judge any case on its own.

I said CCP isnt adressing the wardecs as a problem as you state they are. Cause there is no problem with the wardec mechanics. They are adressing actions taken against new players individually (Its not against the rules to wardec any corp you want, it is against the rules to harass a new player who has no/limited knowledge of the game. Those are completely seperate and different from each other)

Your turn again.

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#325 - 2013-11-07 22:56:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Princess Bride wrote:

What you were saying, in full, was that CCP already has rules to protect new players...FROM WARDECS. As a matter of fact, the exact wording you used was, "I'm quoting an official GM here. So there you go, you now have the official statement of CCP regarding wardecs vs new players." You went on to quote the specific situation of a wardecced noob, and that attacking a noob like that is PETITIONABLE.

And now you are saying that CCP was not addressing the subject of wardecs?! Make up your mind please, because it can't be both true and false.

(PS: One day I WILL stop to amaze you.)

The only "protection" rookies get is that it's a bannable offence to do most "normal EVE" things to a rookie when in the confines of the 25 "rookie systems".


CCP's stance on wardecs against new players is "you joined a corp, you can get dec'd". CCP is not "protecting" new players from wardecs. Anyone and everyone can drop corp if they get dec'd.

I suppose the "hey guys, just don't camp them into a noob system station" could be considered "protecting" them in some fashion ... but it's more a "seriously, we expect you're gonna get trigger happy and shoot the wrong guy" (or be the cause of some other confusion for a non-wt rookie, causing them to die).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#326 - 2013-11-07 23:05:50 UTC
Velicitia wrote:

The only "protection" rookies get is that it's a bannable offence to do most "normal EVE" things to a rookie when in the confines of the 25 "rookie systems".


Not true. In the linked thread, GM Spiral said:

"Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team."

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2013-11-07 23:09:42 UTC
I can't say I blame CCP for protecting rookies in rookie systems.

Really, it would be the height of lame to camp such people, blowing them out of the sky left and right. This would drag down the integrity of griefers and gankers everywhere. Whether you like what they do or not, at least they have a reason for doing it. But blasting and podding rookies on day one? Use your heads folks.

At least let them grow up a little before you bash their heads in.

Closest I came to trying to quit was in a Rookie system though, during the Exploration tutorial. The first few days of EVE are rough enough just standing at the bottom of the learning curve. Thirty minutes into scanning down that gas cloud and I was ready to quit. If I was being podded during this time, that would have been the end of it.

This is not an ivitation to all you old timers to whine. I realize the tutorials are sweet, give you tons of cash and a pile of ships. Not to mention you can fly around the entire galaxy and do every single one if you wish. Don't bloo bloo on me people, I know you never had tutorials. Yes, you had it harder. Yes, you walked uphill, both ways, in bare feet, in the snow. I applaud your tenacity, but I am on your lawn and you will just have to accept it. Don't disappoint me now.

(insert lawn gnome emote)

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#328 - 2013-11-07 23:14:55 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
*hairs being split en masse*

Your turn again.


If you want to believe CCP modified the rules to address the problem of newbies who get wardecced, but at the same time believe CCP sees no problem with newbies getting wardecced, you go right ahead and believe it. It's just a petitionable offense, after all...a point YOU brought up. But yeah, no problem.

As for me, and my participation in this tennis match of a thread, it's late, I'm tired of hitting back the weaksauce returns you are lobbing over the net, and so I bid you goodnight.

Don't forget to study your logic fallacies boys and girls. They're not just for fancy folk.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#329 - 2013-11-07 23:15:47 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Velicitia wrote:

The only "protection" rookies get is that it's a bannable offence to do most "normal EVE" things to a rookie when in the confines of the 25 "rookie systems".


Not true. In the linked thread, GM Spiral said:

"Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areasmay be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team."


The bold part:

MAY BE.

As in, not always.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#330 - 2013-11-07 23:19:03 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
*hairs being split en masse*

Your turn again.


If you want to believe CCP modified the rules to address the problem of newbies who get wardecced, but at the same time believe CCP sees no problem with newbies getting wardecced, you go right ahead and believe it. It's just a petitionable offense, after all...a point YOU brought up. But yeah, no problem.

As for me, and my participation in this tennis match of a thread, it's late, I'm tired of hitting back the weaksauce returns you are lobbing over the net, and so I bid you goodnight.

Don't forget to study your logic fallacies boys and girls. They're not just for fancy folk.


You are really ********.


attacks against a new player are petitionable offenses, as they should be.


wardecs arent, they are working fine. There is no problem with wardecs

You are mixing those two up.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Cyborg 497
State War Academy
Caldari State
#331 - 2013-11-07 23:39:15 UTC
Wardecs are 50million right now. That's the price of a Drake, 1 BC. It's far too cheap. Here's what I would suggest:


Wardec a Corps to cost 100million a week plus 1 million per member of defending corps over 50 - ceiling limit of 500m
Wardec an Alliance 200million a week plus 1m per member over 50 - same limit
Double that for any subseequent wardec ongoing (not sure about this, depends on whether the hike is enough to control wild wardecs as we have today).

This would protect new player corps better and allow players to learn more about Eve before the game gets more serious.

As pointed out by one of the wardec advocates, making war is not generally a money-making enterprise. However, even with these changes, you would still have war, wardecs, ganking and the like.

Everyone is happy! Smile
Velicitia
XS Tech
#332 - 2013-11-07 23:46:36 UTC
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Wardecs are 50million right now. That's the price of a Drake, 1 BC. It's far too cheap. Here's what I would suggest:


Wardec a Corps to cost 100million a week plus 1 million per member of defending corps over 50 - ceiling limit of 500m
Wardec an Alliance 200million a week plus 1m per member over 50 - same limit
Double that for any subseequent wardec ongoing (not sure about this, depends on whether the hike is enough to control wild wardecs as we have today).

This would protect new player corps better and allow players to learn more about Eve before the game gets more serious.

As pointed out by one of the wardec advocates, making war is not generally a money-making enterprise. However, even with these changes, you would still have war, wardecs, ganking and the like.

Everyone is happy! Smile


Wardecs used to be TWO MILLION.
They were (only quite recently) raised to what they cost now; due to the carebears whining that 2m was too cheap.
18 months later (tops) they're whining (again) that they're too cheap.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Velicitia
XS Tech
#333 - 2013-11-07 23:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Princess Bride wrote:
Velicitia wrote:

The only "protection" rookies get is that it's a bannable offence to do most "normal EVE" things to a rookie when in the confines of the 25 "rookie systems".


Not true. In the linked thread, GM Spiral said:

"Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team."



Actually, that's on the "Rookie Systems" wiki page. You might want to read the whole quote. Here it is in case you don't wanna go look again.


GM Spiral wrote:

"Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team."

We understand that this is causing some level of concern. This should only ever be applicable to those that have been found to be serious repeat offenders to the overall policy. Such an individual may be directed by customer support to cease all hostilities against new players (or rookies), enforced through section 6 of the Terms of Service. "Pursuing activities against" is not the occasional gank or target of opportunity outside of rookie systems.


(emphasis added)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2013-11-08 00:03:57 UTC
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Everyone is happy! Smile


I was going to say no, because I am starting to think that complaining is a style of EVE play; but that would be illogical as these people would still be happy.

Cyborg 497 wins...

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti
Cyborg 497
State War Academy
Caldari State
#335 - 2013-11-08 00:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyborg 497
Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Everyone is happy! Smile


I was going to say no, because I am starting to think that complaining is a style of EVE play; but that would be illogical as these people would still be happy.

Cyborg 497 wins...


Hurrah! I win!!!

Seriously, raising the cost from 50m to 100m is not going to endanger the wardec mechanic, but will make them think a little more carefully about whom and how many they do wardec!

No more frivolous wardecs!

Eve will increase even more in active players!! CCP will start making "real" money and challenge some of the higher populated MMOs without compromising their hard-core game structure.
Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2013-11-08 00:24:40 UTC
Split the difference?

75m?

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#337 - 2013-11-08 00:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Ozuwara
J'Poll wrote:
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
War deccing miners isn't war. What is happening with Stain Wagon and N3 is war.


Wars come in different flavours and sizes.

Nonsense. A war dec against some mining pubbies is nothing like what is happening in Nullsec. If one of them is a war, it is the war in nullsec that involves thousands of players, capital ships, espionage, etc.

Not turtling in stations and noobs getting killed in Jita because they forgot there was a wardec.

Also, the "RvB War" isn't much of a war either. It's simply a mechanic exploited by RvB to stage scrimmages. If you've been in RvB, it is fun as heck, but the definition of inconsequential (from a meta perspective) and staged combat.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Cyborg 497
State War Academy
Caldari State
#338 - 2013-11-08 00:33:24 UTC
Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:
Split the difference?

75m?


Could do....
Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2013-11-08 00:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zheng'Yi Sao
Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:
Split the difference?

75m?


No, but really, 50m seems fair. It is of a different order than 2m, but what is the next order of magnitude? People who don't have billions will just buy plex. One might think, who would be lame enough to spend PLEX on a war? Well, who would be lame enough to have four accounts just for mining in Hi-Sec? Both happen, I assure you.

Leave it as it is.

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti
Velicitia
XS Tech
#340 - 2013-11-08 00:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Everyone is happy! Smile


I was going to say no, because I am starting to think that complaining is a style of EVE play; but that would be illogical as these people would still be happy.

Cyborg 497 wins...


Hurrah! I win!!!

Seriously, raising the cost from 50m to 100m is not going to endanger the wardec mechanic, but will make them think a little more carefully about whom and how many they do wardec!

No more frivolous wardecs!

Eve will increase even more in active players!! CCP will start making "real" money and challenge some of the higher populated MMOs without compromising their hard-core game structure.



This is the exact same argument that was used to bump 'decs from 2 million to 50 million in Inferno. Or, close enough anyway.Here's the devblog about it

Perhaps it is you who needs to adapt to things, rather than continually requesting CCP to make things "harder" for the people looking for wars?

I mean, there has already been a 25x cost increase to wars ... there's only so much that CCP can do to placate "the newbies" before they start alienating the vets (who are more or less guaranteed money, sometimes several times over because of alts).


edit --> furthermore, you're in a NPC corp and have no say on the matter. Please either post with your main or join a player corporation.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia