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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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Princess Bride
SharkNado
#301 - 2013-11-07 21:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
J'Poll wrote:
I love how 3 individual people all read that rule in exactly the same way and you are the only person in EVE who reads it as: Yes there is a problem with the war mechanic.

Does this means we all are wrong, or you are wrong?


It means neither. What you are suggesting is called argumentum ad populum. Read and learn.

I do love, however, how you made the fallacy jump from "3 individual people" to "the rest of Eve" to "all" in the space of 3 lines. It's like a circus act!

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#302 - 2013-11-07 22:04:38 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

It does not state that there is a problem, all it points out, is if the little dude is having difficulties dealing with it, maybe he should strap the training wheels back on via NPC corp until the little dude can grasp the game a bit better.


So in your mind, they passed a bunch of rules protecting newbies because...there was no problem.


You clearly did NOT read the entire GM Spiral, or you just didn't understand.

They changed the rule, cause the old rules were outdated and not clear enough.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#303 - 2013-11-07 22:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
I love how 3 individual people all read that rule in exactly the same way and you are the only person in EVE who reads it as: Yes there is a problem with the war mechanic.

Does this means we all are wrong, or you are wrong?


It means neither. What you are suggesting is called argumentum ad populum. Read and learn.

I do love, however, how you made the fallacy jump from "3 individual people" to "the rest of Eve" to "all" in the space of 3 lines. It's like a circus act!


Well, it's the rule the GM enforce...and I have had personal experience (on the proper side of the law there) with it, and the GMs at that point ruled as all 3 of us said.

And where did I say all...

All I said: Are we all wrong...which refers to all 3 people above...



You might be able to throw fancy links around, your understanding of written English is so low that being stupid doesn't even qualify for it anymore.

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Princess Bride
SharkNado
#304 - 2013-11-07 22:08:32 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

It does not state that there is a problem, all it points out, is if the little dude is having difficulties dealing with it, maybe he should strap the training wheels back on via NPC corp until the little dude can grasp the game a bit better.


So in your mind, they passed a bunch of rules protecting newbies because...there was no problem.


You clearly did NOT read the entire GM Spiral, or you just didn't understand.

They changed the rule, cause the old rules were outdated and not clear enough.



They EXPANDED the rule, because the old rules were not sufficient, from the starter system to EVERY system. Also, through the clarifications, he effectively added a bunch of little sub-rules, including one specifically addressing noobs who get wardecced.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#305 - 2013-11-07 22:12:22 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

It does not state that there is a problem, all it points out, is if the little dude is having difficulties dealing with it, maybe he should strap the training wheels back on via NPC corp until the little dude can grasp the game a bit better.


So in your mind, they passed a bunch of rules protecting newbies because...there was no problem.


You clearly did NOT read the entire GM Spiral, or you just didn't understand.

They changed the rule, cause the old rules were outdated and not clear enough.



They EXPANDED the rule, because the old rules were not sufficient, from the starter system to EVERY system. Also, through the clarifications, he effectively added a bunch of little sub-rules, including one specifically addressing noobs who get wardecced.


Yes, to which he says, the GMs will suggest that the New player drops back to NPC corp.

It NEVER says there is a problem with the system as it is.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#306 - 2013-11-07 22:12:33 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

It does not state that there is a problem, all it points out, is if the little dude is having difficulties dealing with it, maybe he should strap the training wheels back on via NPC corp until the little dude can grasp the game a bit better.


So in your mind, they passed a bunch of rules protecting newbies because...there was no problem.


It still does not state that there is a problem with the war dec as you claimed. All it is, is a common sense approach for some of more special kids that just don't get it.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#307 - 2013-11-07 22:12:42 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
...fancy links...


Dude, this stuff is not fancy. It's basic logic. The reason it's written in Latin is that it's old.... you know... been around pretty much forever? I'm very sorry you lack the education to follow the discussion without getting frustrated and repeatedly ignoring forum rules and embarassing yourself with ad hominem attacks. The most I can do is provide links explaining WTF I am talking about in order to help you keep up. The rest is up to you.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#308 - 2013-11-07 22:17:29 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
...fancy links...


Dude, this stuff is not fancy. It's basic logic. The reason it's written in Latin is that it's old.... you know... been around pretty much forever? I'm very sorry you lack the education to follow the discussion without getting frustrated and repeatedly ignoring forum rules and embarassing yourself with ad hominem attacks. The most I can do is provide links explaining WTF I am talking about in order to help you keep up. The rest is up to you.


Actually the definition fits you and the OP quite nicely. The whole emotional claim the every one is leaving because of some supposed bad mechanic.

Quote:
This fallacy is sometimes also called the "Appeal to Emotion" because emotional appeals often sway the population as a whole.

So yeah, next?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#309 - 2013-11-07 22:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
...fancy links...


Dude, this stuff is not fancy. It's basic logic. The reason it's written in Latin is that it's old.... you know... been around pretty much forever? I'm very sorry you lack the education to follow the discussion without getting frustrated and repeatedly ignoring forum rules and embarassing yourself with ad hominem attacks. The most I can do is provide links explaining WTF I am talking about in order to help you keep up. The rest is up to you.


You are the silly one, claiming that CCP says there is a problem, where as NOBODY else will read it like that.

Please enlighten me in the entire thread regarding the change in rookie protection where CCP says that the current wardec mechanic is a problem (as that is the purpose of this thread).

Again, let me safe you the time.

You won't find it, cause there is no problem with it.

A new player joins/starts a corp, which can be wardecced.

From here there are 2 options:

1. He stays with said corp and deals with the war.
2. He goes back to the NPC corp and doesn't have to worry about wars.

So, CCP already gives you the option to not being wardecced.
If you quit over a wardec, that means you are the type of person that usually only plays FotM games and likely wouldn't have played EVE for more then 3 months any way.

But even if people leave cause of a war, there is no problem, because you already have the option to avoid wars by staying in the NPC corp.

By joining a corp you agree with the chance of being pulled into a war
just as clicking the undock is you agreeing with the chance of being ganked

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Rekon X
Doomheim
#310 - 2013-11-07 22:19:05 UTC
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:

I have heard of many people leaving Eve, rather than do any of the alternatives mentioned. After several wardecs they have grown tired of the losses, inconvenience, and the ease at which a hostile corp can wardec so many others with a relatively minimal initial outlay.


True. I haven't played much but I've seen a few leave.

A large part of high sec wardecs are about lamer corps scouting out weak indy, mining, new player corps and declaring war on them for easy targets. The game even has an alliance/corp for newbs to go into for training, but the lamers wardec that also. I mean really, are you that pathetic?

I've always thought EVEUNI should be immune to wardec. I was in corp chat and someone a couple of weeks old was looking for a corp, I mentioned EVEUNI, but noticed they were wardeced.


All in all, they probably do the gaming community a favor by driving players out of this game.

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#311 - 2013-11-07 22:20:36 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:

I have heard of many people leaving Eve, rather than do any of the alternatives mentioned. After several wardecs they have grown tired of the losses, inconvenience, and the ease at which a hostile corp can wardec so many others with a relatively minimal initial outlay.

.



Hear-say....the best and most trusted form of gathering information...

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#312 - 2013-11-07 22:20:53 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
I love how 3 individual people all read that rule in exactly the same way and you are the only person in EVE who reads it as: Yes there is a problem with the war mechanic.

Does this means we all are wrong, or you are wrong?

You are sociopaths and bad people


least we're not goons (grr goons) Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#313 - 2013-11-07 22:23:14 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
I love how 3 individual people all read that rule in exactly the same way and you are the only person in EVE who reads it as: Yes there is a problem with the war mechanic.

Does this means we all are wrong, or you are wrong?

You are sociopaths and bad people


least we're not goons (grr goons) Cool


It is not a bad thing to be a Goon, I know far worse groups to be associated with...you know who I have not heard from for a long time..Jade Constantine.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#314 - 2013-11-07 22:24:04 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:

I have heard of many people leaving Eve, rather than do any of the alternatives mentioned. After several wardecs they have grown tired of the losses, inconvenience, and the ease at which a hostile corp can wardec so many others with a relatively minimal initial outlay.


True. I haven't played much but I've seen a few leave.

A large part of high sec wardecs are about lamer corps scouting out weak indy, mining, new player corps and declaring war on them for easy targets. The game even has an alliance/corp for newbs to go into for training, but the lamers wardec that also. I mean really, are you that pathetic?

I've always thought EVEUNI should be immune to wardec. I was in corp chat and someone a couple of weeks old was looking for a corp, I mentioned EVEUNI, but noticed they were wardeced.


All in all, they probably do the gaming community a favor by driving players out of this game.



Why should EVEUNI be immune to wardec, they are just a player corp like any other in EVE.

And EVEUNI at least has people who can fight back, so you won't hear them complain about a wardec, and they consist mainly of new players.


Now let's take the most perfect example....

Brave Newbies Inc.


They were build by new player, had mainly new players in there, gained a lot of exposure by news articles etc.

Then they received wardecs...Did those guys all leave EVE, nope they stood up, fought and won. They manned up and showed that they were not to be ****** with...And ever since they are recognized by many as fearless PvP guys.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Princess Bride
SharkNado
#315 - 2013-11-07 22:25:36 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
...fancy links...


Dude, this stuff is not fancy. It's basic logic. The reason it's written in Latin is that it's old.... you know... been around pretty much forever? I'm very sorry you lack the education to follow the discussion without getting frustrated and repeatedly ignoring forum rules and embarassing yourself with ad hominem attacks. The most I can do is provide links explaining WTF I am talking about in order to help you keep up. The rest is up to you.


You are the silly one, claiming that CCP says there is a problem, where as NOBODY else will read it like that.

Please enlighten me in the entire thread regarding the change in rookie protection where CCP says that the current wardec mechanic is a problem (as that is the purpose of this thread).

Again, let me safe you the time.

You won't find it, cause there is no problem with it.

A new player joins/starts a corp, which can be wardecced.

From here there are 2 options:

1. He stays with said corp and deals with the war.
2. He goes back to the NPC corp and doesn't have to worry about wars.

So, CCP already gives you the option to not being wardecced.
If you quit over a wardec, that means you are the type of person that usually only plays FotM games and likely wouldn't have played EVE for more then 3 months any way.

But even if people leave cause of a war, there is no problem, because you already have the option to avoid wars by staying in the NPC corp.

By joining a corp you agree with the chance of being pulled into a war
just as clicking the undock is you agreeing with the chance of being ganked


Okay so, what was the point you guys were proving by bringing up that locked thread to begin with?

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Velicitia
XS Tech
#316 - 2013-11-07 22:26:26 UTC
Baaldor wrote:


It is not a bad thing to be a Goon, I know far worse groups to be associated with...you know who I have not heard from for a long time..Jade Constantine.



yeah, they're just hte bad guys du jour ... 5 years ago it was "grrr BoB"

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Richard Ramlrez
Doomheim
#317 - 2013-11-07 22:26:52 UTC
I think EVEUNI does the best possible job to keep newbies playing this game, CCP owns them a share of their profits. Still joining EVEUNI is a passport to play ship spinning for 95% of your gametime.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#318 - 2013-11-07 22:28:10 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
...fancy links...


Dude, this stuff is not fancy. It's basic logic. The reason it's written in Latin is that it's old.... you know... been around pretty much forever? I'm very sorry you lack the education to follow the discussion without getting frustrated and repeatedly ignoring forum rules and embarassing yourself with ad hominem attacks. The most I can do is provide links explaining WTF I am talking about in order to help you keep up. The rest is up to you.


You are the silly one, claiming that CCP says there is a problem, where as NOBODY else will read it like that.

Please enlighten me in the entire thread regarding the change in rookie protection where CCP says that the current wardec mechanic is a problem (as that is the purpose of this thread).

Again, let me safe you the time.

You won't find it, cause there is no problem with it.

A new player joins/starts a corp, which can be wardecced.

From here there are 2 options:

1. He stays with said corp and deals with the war.
2. He goes back to the NPC corp and doesn't have to worry about wars.

So, CCP already gives you the option to not being wardecced.
If you quit over a wardec, that means you are the type of person that usually only plays FotM games and likely wouldn't have played EVE for more then 3 months any way.

But even if people leave cause of a war, there is no problem, because you already have the option to avoid wars by staying in the NPC corp.

By joining a corp you agree with the chance of being pulled into a war
just as clicking the undock is you agreeing with the chance of being ganked


Okay so, what was the point you guys were proving by bringing up that locked thread to begin with?


You asked for links, after I said that CCP already has rules to protect new players.

So besides not being able to read, having a low IQ, you also have the memory of a goldfish and can't remember stuff for more then 3 seconds.

You can't stop to amaze me.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#319 - 2013-11-07 22:30:14 UTC
Richard Ramlrez wrote:
I think EVEUNI does the best possible job to keep newbies playing this game, CCP owns them a share of their profits. Still joining EVEUNI is a passport to play ship spinning for 95% of your gametime.


IMO, there are far better teaching entities out there in EVE then EVE Uni.

Many of them who don't have a list of rules that makes the bible look like a pocket book
Many of them who don't want to know where your parents were exactly 5103 days ago as a recruitment requirement
Many of them where you are not a number, but rather keep the "classes" small.

But that is just me.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Rekon X
Doomheim
#320 - 2013-11-07 22:31:20 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Rekon X wrote:
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:

I have heard of many people leaving Eve, rather than do any of the alternatives mentioned. After several wardecs they have grown tired of the losses, inconvenience, and the ease at which a hostile corp can wardec so many others with a relatively minimal initial outlay.

.



Hear-say....the best and most trusted form of gathering information...


Such intelligence. It does confirm my theory that stupid people congregate in this game. Somehow it makes them 'feel' smarter, but stupid will always be stupid.

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew