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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2013-11-07 17:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
wardec was conceive by ******* idiots/

simple.

ccp is even more meh than vivendi and their ******* spawn.


if you dont know you dont want to know.
Cyborg 497
State War Academy
Caldari State
#222 - 2013-11-07 17:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyborg 497
J'Poll wrote:


So. The aggressors dont log on. HOW is that affecting the defenders. They cant kill you when not logged in. I have mined and missioned in the past while under a wardec. Add them to your watchlist, be on your toes when one of them is online. If they are all offline, what is different then not wardecced.

YOU are exactly the kind that is wrong with EVE. Expecting a complete safe enviroment and CCPs help all the time.

Let me repeat it again: CCP themself stated that highsec is NOT completely safe, just a bit safer. They dont want WoW inspace like you want. The stuff is working as intended. EVE is Darwinism at its best, adapt or die... A 100 man indy corp can wreck havoc to any PvP corp that decs them. They have numbers, they can build their own supplies. They just need a big pair of balls and tactics, but.most only care about 1 thing, their own carebearing size of their wallets


You are the typical wardec numpty that CCP have already made changes to Eve because of. First off, to misquote or misrepresemt the other person's point: I clearly stated we (I) do NOT want WoW-type protection in Eve.

The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?! QuestionAttention It will cut out many of the frivolous wardecs made by numerous bored psuedo-PVP corps.

The other point was it was a hypothetical example: the general rule is not to mine during war: you can get around that ofc but it does mean organizing protected fleets.

And didn't you know that many PVPers do not login while they play alts who spy on their chosen opponent for vulnerable quarry? You're the kind of mug who would get caught with your trousers down, merrily mining away oblivious that they had you under observation the whole time!!

A small correction to wardecs would be a good rebalancing IMO. Greater safeguards to new players are needed to increase the revenue CCP get for this brilliant game!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#223 - 2013-11-07 17:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
But to answer the title of the thread.

No, wars dont make people leave. People leave because they find out that EVE isnt the game for them. EVE has always been a PvP centered game, if you are expecting it to be carebear heaven you will be disapointed and leave. This doesnt mean the game is wrong or at fault, it means that EVE isnt your type of game.


This actually happened to a friend of mine who tried EVE for 3 months. After that he just acknowledged that EVE wasnt for him as he was really into PvE and nothing more. But unlike all the whining carebears in this thread and generally on the forums, he did see it in the right way: The game wasnt wrong or broken, it was just not the game for him.


+1 for at least addressing the topic with your opinion.

But then you fall right into the same false dilemma so many in this thread seem to gravitate to. Contemplating changes to the wardec system which may help new player retention DOES NOT EQUAL expecting Eve to be carebear heaven. You can make changes that help noobs survive the learning curve without killing Eve. The proof is in the patch notes and dev blogs. Similar changes have been made in the past without killing the game.



And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced).

There are PLENTY of corps for new players to join that know how to deal with a war.
And if they make their own, they should already have read up on what a corp means, and know they can get wardecced.

And even if they made one, they only get wardecced, if they for some reason stand out as a target.


ALL you and all the other whiners do, is give some false argument regarding new players etc. but in the end all you do is yell:

CCP, FIX WARDECS SO I CAN CAREBEAR IN COMPLETE PEACE.


Quote:
Did you stop to consider that maybe the reason your friend worded his explanation so tactfully is because he didn't want you to think of him as "a whining carebear" because he's your friend?


Nope. Cause I already knew he is a PvE kind of guy from my game experience with him. I also warned him about the nature of EVE. He unlike most those whiners here just sees where the issue lies. Tip: It ain't EVE or the wardec mechanism.

Quote:
I think a lot of the players who desperately resist ANY change that helps new players get their footing are in love with the idea that the MMO world views Eve as "hard". They tie their ego to this, and proudly proclaim to their online buddies that they're "Eve Players" as a badge of honor. Anything that threatens Eve's reputation as an absurdly difficult game weakens their own self image as people who play the hardest MMO on the net. These people are never going to listen to arguments for inclusion, because they like it being exclusive. Everyone wants to be a member of the exclusive club, no? They are proud of their "accomplishment" in surviving Eve, and the less people who do, the more impressive their accomplishment appears. So in the end, they don't want new players to make it, because the more members a club has, the less exclusive it is, and the less impressive their accomplishment appears.


Changing the wardec system is NOT going to get you more new players to stay. It will just suit carebears like you, don't mix those 2 up.

CCP has done great things in their NPE changes to get more players and keep them. I agree, a little more information about wardecs and the pro's and cons about joining a corp would definitely be good.

But the wardec mechanism as it stands is good. It's the lazy carebears that also whine in this thread that have an issue with it. Instead of posting so much whine in here...go out in PvP ships in EVE and fight the wardecs...Once they find out you guys aren't sitting ducks, they will find new prey that is easier to shoot.

Adapt or die....

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#224 - 2013-11-07 17:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
But to answer the title of the thread.

No, wars dont make people leave. People leave because they find out that EVE isnt the game for them. EVE has always been a PvP centered game, if you are expecting it to be carebear heaven you will be disapointed and leave. This doesnt mean the game is wrong or at fault, it means that EVE isnt your type of game.


This actually happened to a friend of mine who tried EVE for 3 months. After that he just acknowledged that EVE wasnt for him as he was really into PvE and nothing more. But unlike all the whining carebears in this thread and generally on the forums, he did see it in the right way: The game wasnt wrong or broken, it was just not the game for him.


+1 for at least addressing the topic with your opinion.

But then you fall right into the same false dilemma so many in this thread seem to gravitate to. Contemplating changes to the wardec system which may help new player retention DOES NOT EQUAL expecting Eve to be carebear heaven. You can make changes that help noobs survive the learning curve without killing Eve. The proof is in the patch notes and dev blogs. Similar changes have been made in the past without killing the game.



And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced).

There are PLENTY of corps for new players to join that know how to deal with a war.
And if they make their own, they should already have read up on what a corp means, and know they can get wardecced.

And even if they made one, they only get wardecced, if they for some reason stand out as a target.


ALL you and all the other whiners do, is give some false argument regarding new players etc. but in the end all you do is yell:

CCP, FIX WARDECS SO I CAN CAREBEAR IN COMPLETE PEACE.



your a **** that wants free kills , like the rest.

would you know a real GG if it hit you in the face?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#225 - 2013-11-07 18:00:30 UTC
fuer0n wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
But to answer the title of the thread.

No, wars dont make people leave. People leave because they find out that EVE isnt the game for them. EVE has always been a PvP centered game, if you are expecting it to be carebear heaven you will be disapointed and leave. This doesnt mean the game is wrong or at fault, it means that EVE isnt your type of game.


This actually happened to a friend of mine who tried EVE for 3 months. After that he just acknowledged that EVE wasnt for him as he was really into PvE and nothing more. But unlike all the whining carebears in this thread and generally on the forums, he did see it in the right way: The game wasnt wrong or broken, it was just not the game for him.


+1 for at least addressing the topic with your opinion.

But then you fall right into the same false dilemma so many in this thread seem to gravitate to. Contemplating changes to the wardec system which may help new player retention DOES NOT EQUAL expecting Eve to be carebear heaven. You can make changes that help noobs survive the learning curve without killing Eve. The proof is in the patch notes and dev blogs. Similar changes have been made in the past without killing the game.



And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced).

There are PLENTY of corps for new players to join that know how to deal with a war.
And if they make their own, they should already have read up on what a corp means, and know they can get wardecced.

And even if they made one, they only get wardecced, if they for some reason stand out as a target.


ALL you and all the other whiners do, is give some false argument regarding new players etc. but in the end all you do is yell:

CCP, FIX WARDECS SO I CAN CAREBEAR IN COMPLETE PEACE.



your a **** that wants free kills , like the rest.


And you are an idiot. If you ever looked, you would have seen I'm not a wardeccer or anything.

But keep whining...your tears are the most tasteful I've had in times.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2013-11-07 18:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
i edited, answer.


haggis maybe the rest no. exept for the dof crew and they sucked.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#227 - 2013-11-07 18:04:14 UTC
Cyborg 497 wrote:
The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?!
Simple: there's no reason for doing so. That makes it inherently wrong.

Figure out if there's anything even remotely resembling a problem. Then figure out what the causes of that problem are. Then figure out the myriad of solutions to those causes. Then figure out which of those solutions would have the least impact on the game overall.

Jumping straight to the end without any of the intervening steps means the proposed solution is 100% awful by default.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2013-11-07 18:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Tippia wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?!
Simple: there's no reason for doing so. That makes it inherently wrong.

Figure out if there's anything even remotely resembling a problem. Then figure out what the causes of that problem are. Then figure out the myriad of solutions to those causes. Then figure out which of those solutions would have the least impact on the game overall.

Jumping straight to the end without any of the intervening steps means the proposed solution is 100% awful by default.


this game is great isnt it? meh:P
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#229 - 2013-11-07 18:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Cyborg 497 wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


So. The aggressors dont log on. HOW is that affecting the defenders. They cant kill you when not logged in. I have mined and missioned in the past while under a wardec. Add them to your watchlist, be on your toes when one of them is online. If they are all offline, what is different then not wardecced.

YOU are exactly the kind that is wrong with EVE. Expecting a complete safe enviroment and CCPs help all the time.

Let me repeat it again: CCP themself stated that highsec is NOT completely safe, just a bit safer. They dont want WoW inspace like you want. The stuff is working as intended. EVE is Darwinism at its best, adapt or die... A 100 man indy corp can wreck havoc to any PvP corp that decs them. They have numbers, they can build their own supplies. They just need a big pair of balls and tactics, but.most only care about 1 thing, their own carebearing size of their wallets


You are the typical wardec numpty that CCP have already made changes to Eve because of. First off, to misquote or misrepresemt the other person's point: I clearly stated we (I) do NOT want WoW-type protection in Eve.

The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?! QuestionAttention It will cut out many of the frivolous wardecs made by numerous bored psuedo-PVP corps.

The other point was it was a hypothetical example: the general rule is not to mine during war: you can get around that ofc but it does mean organizing protected fleets.

And didn't you know that many PVPers do not login while they play alts who spy on their chosen opponent for vulnerable quarry? You're the kind of mug who would get caught with your trousers down, merrily mining away oblivious that they had you under observation the whole time!!

A small correction to wardecs would be a good rebalancing IMO. Greater safeguards to new players are needed to increase the revenue CCP get for this brilliant game!


Same response to you as the other idiot that can't do any research:

I don't wardec...Hell, I hardly undock.

But you think that increasing the money amount will hurt the wardeccers....good luck, you have even less braincells then I expected.

You do know that trading can give you billions a month as PROFIT. So, wardeccers have to get their ships from some place, guess what, the wardecs are not an income, they have alts and side jobs to provide it.

The only way a war will be fixed, if you get yourself and your lazy bum out of that mining ship / mission blingy ship and fight people.


And you do know that lots of people have MULTIPLE accounts.

PvP guys can play on their PvP guy while having an alt online to spy on you.

Same counts for you, you can mine while having an alt next door on the gate watching for War targets.


In the end, EVERY and ALL of your post can be summed down to 1 single TL:DR


*I'm a F-ing Carebear, I want risk free PvE...CCP HELP ME*



And you do know, subscription numbers are still INCREASING...which means that current system is doing just fine for new players to keep coming to the game.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Cyborg 497
State War Academy
Caldari State
#230 - 2013-11-07 18:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyborg 497
Tippia wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?!
Simple: there's no reason for doing so. That makes it inherently wrong.

Figure out if there's anything even remotely resembling a problem. Then figure out what the causes of that problem are. Then figure out the myriad of solutions to those causes. Then figure out which of those solutions would have the least impact on the game overall.

Jumping straight to the end without any of the intervening steps means the proposed solution is 100% awful by default.


Hey I agree with your point Tippia!

I see a real problem with multiple wardecs. I also see the issue that wardecs are too cheap. Making them a bit more expensive to the aggressor will not stop the wardecs, but will make them consider wardeccing more selectively.

You and several others see no problem whatsoever. That's where we disagree and where CCP have to decide one way or the other.

In the end, we all want what is best for the great game that is Eve Online.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2013-11-07 18:11:57 UTC
yeah fight for your right.Big smile
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#232 - 2013-11-07 18:13:24 UTC
editing atm.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#233 - 2013-11-07 18:13:29 UTC
J'Poll wrote:

And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced).


Because many of them join player corps early. They are encouraged to do so at every turn: In the forums, in the help channels, by CCP, by other players, etc.

Quote:

1. There are PLENTY of corps for new players to join that know how to deal with a war.

2. And if they make their own, they should already have read up on what a corp means, and know they can get wardecced.

3. And even if they made one, they only get wardecced, if they for some reason stand out as a target.


1. And plenty more that do not know how to deal with a war.
2. They should, but many do not have a complete understanding of the ever-changing wardec mechanics. Maybe they read some outdated or poorly written help file. Does that make them a player we should exclude?
3. That's utter nonsense, and is akin to blaming a **** victim for wearing skimpy outfits.

Quote:

ALL you and all the other whiners do, is give some false argument regarding new players etc. but in the end all you do is yell:

CCP, FIX WARDECS SO I CAN CAREBEAR IN COMPLETE PEACE.


Ad hominem and caps FTW. If you think my argument is false, prove it so. If you are unable to do so, concede the point or GTFO before you make yourself look like an idiot.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2013-11-07 18:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?!
Simple: there's no reason for doing so. That makes it inherently wrong.

Figure out if there's anything even remotely resembling a problem. Then figure out what the causes of that problem are. Then figure out the myriad of solutions to those causes. Then figure out which of those solutions would have the least impact on the game overall.

Jumping straight to the end without any of the intervening steps means the proposed solution is 100% awful by default.


Hey I agree with your point Tippia!

I see a real problem with multiple wardecs. I also see the issue that wardecs are too cheap. Making them a bit more expensive to the aggressor will not stop the wardecs, but will make them consider wardeccing more selectively.

You and several others see no problem whatsoever. That's where we disagree and where CCP have to decide one way or the other.

In the end, we all want what is best for the great game that is Eve Online.


so why these bully boy ******* ****** drop a lamb into a full pool of sharks mechanics?

i stopped running lowsecs a long time ago. 6 ships landing on 1 and ganking isnt fun.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#235 - 2013-11-07 18:15:06 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced).


Because many of them join player corps early. They are encouraged to do so at every turn: In the forums, in the help channels, by CCP, by other players, etc.


I know...I'm a NCQA regular, and on that same forum there is a great guide on how to find a PROPER corp.

And a PROPER corp will help you during wardecs

They will have counter measures, tips and tricks, PvP players to defend you etc. etc.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#236 - 2013-11-07 18:17:32 UTC
Cyborg 497 wrote:
I see a real problem with multiple wardecs.
What problem is that?

Quote:
I also see the issue that wardecs are too cheap.
How is that an issue?
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#237 - 2013-11-07 18:18:08 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced).


Because many of them join player corps early. They are encouraged to do so at every turn: In the forums, in the help channels, by CCP, by other players, etc.


I know...I'm a NCQA regular, and on that same forum there is a great guide on how to find a PROPER corp.

And a PROPER corp will help you during wardecs

They will have counter measures, tips and tricks, PvP players to defend you etc. etc.


That's fantastic. It's too bad so many new players don't automagically know where to find the best resources. If only we had a properly updated official wiki with everything you need to know as a new player. But we don't.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Velicitia
XS Tech
#238 - 2013-11-07 18:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Cyborg 497 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
The changes being proposed are small; incremental increases to wardecs. What is wrong with that!?!
Simple: there's no reason for doing so. That makes it inherently wrong.

Figure out if there's anything even remotely resembling a problem. Then figure out what the causes of that problem are. Then figure out the myriad of solutions to those causes. Then figure out which of those solutions would have the least impact on the game overall.

Jumping straight to the end without any of the intervening steps means the proposed solution is 100% awful by default.


Hey I agree with your point Tippia!

I see a real problem with multiple wardecs. I also see the issue that wardecs are too cheap. Making them a bit more expensive to the aggressor will not stop the wardecs, but will make them consider wardeccing more selectively.

You and several others see no problem whatsoever. That's where we disagree and where CCP have to decide one way or the other.

In the end, we all want what is best for the great game that is Eve Online.


Wardecs have already been made more expensive, and yet here people are whining that "hey CCP, make them more expensive and they'll go away".

historical fact time

1. Corp to corp wardecs (e.g. Emergent Avionics to CDG Playgrounds) cost 2 million.
2. Corp to alliance (or alliance to corp) cost 50 million.


These days:
Corp to Corp wardec (Emergent Avionics to some dead-looking 5 man one because I wanted a moon) cost 50 million.
Corp to Alliance (or Alliance to corp) -- IDK, haven't bothered with this one yet.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Velicitia
XS Tech
#239 - 2013-11-07 18:19:24 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

And how is changing the war mechanics going to help NEW players (who start in a NPC corp, who can't be wardecced).


Because many of them join player corps early. They are encouraged to do so at every turn: In the forums, in the help channels, by CCP, by other players, etc.


I know...I'm a NCQA regular, and on that same forum there is a great guide on how to find a PROPER corp.

And a PROPER corp will help you during wardecs

They will have counter measures, tips and tricks, PvP players to defend you etc. etc.


That's fantastic. It's too bad so many new players don't automagically know where to find the best resources. If only we had a properly updated official wiki with everything you need to know as a new player. But we don't.



hint: you (or any EVE subscriber) can edit it.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#240 - 2013-11-07 18:19:46 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:

Quote:

1. There are PLENTY of corps for new players to join that know how to deal with a war.

2. And if they make their own, they should already have read up on what a corp means, and know they can get wardecced.

3. And even if they made one, they only get wardecced, if they for some reason stand out as a target.


1. And plenty more that do not know how to deal with a war.
2. They should, but many do not have a complete understanding of the ever-changing wardec mechanics. Maybe they read some outdated or poorly written help file. Does that make them a player we should exclude?
3. That's utter nonsense, and is akin to blaming a **** victim for wearing skimpy outfits.

Quote:

ALL you and all the other whiners do, is give some false argument regarding new players etc. but in the end all you do is yell:

CCP, FIX WARDECS SO I CAN CAREBEAR IN COMPLETE PEACE.


Ad hominem and caps FTW. If you think my argument is false, prove it so. If you are unable to do so, concede the point or GTFO before you make yourself look like an idiot.


1.) Sure there are ******** corps. Hence you do RESEARCH the corp before you join them. There is a great guide about that on the forums.

2.) UHM...ask...Help channel, rookie help, NCQA forums...not like there isn't a place where you can ask questions / verify the info you found etc.

3.) As I said, I know at least 8 or 9 guys that made their own corp as a new player. Of those 6 corps, 1 got wardecced, but only because he was after wardecs in the first place, as he wanted to PvP. The other 5 corps, up until now, never had a single wardec. Why, because they keep low profile.

Will they receive a wardec, sure they will, at one point. But you and the other whiners make it sound like you are wardecced the second you make a corp, which is NOT true.


--

Luckily you already showed that you are the idiot here...

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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