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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#201 - 2013-11-07 16:36:42 UTC
fuer0n wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
(stuff)]


PARAGRAPHS! for the love of the flying spaghetti monster use paragraphs!


im lillitarate but how many languages can you speak?
talk.



I've forgotten Spanish, Italian, and Russian from lack of usage after uni (not that I was ever any good at them anyway)Oops ... so currently, English and a smattering of random words/phrases from the afore-mentioned languages ...

Not that I really know what that has to do with the complaint of DC using walls of text... ?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Cyborg 497
State War Academy
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-11-07 16:40:38 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
WTB Extra tank for highsec carebear tears. Current tanks are already full.


Also, if a 100 man indy corp gets wardecced by a 7 man PvP corp....wow, the odds are 100:7. But instead of fighting together in a PVP GAME, you come here to whine about EVE being unfair.


Tip: EVE isnt fair. HTFU or go play a different theme park game.


You ignored my example about that: when the aggressors were challenged they stayed docked up in a station. They also rarely logged in, yet decced as many corps as they could pay for, costly themselves a few 100miliion, costing the many defenders several billions!

Meanwhile the 7-man corp chuckled as they thought to themselves, "How dangerous we are, to declare war on so many!"

The balance is clearly wrong IMO and needs a neutral head of CCP to examine it.

Tip: Go play GTA yourself!
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-11-07 16:40:55 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
fuer0n wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
(stuff)]


PARAGRAPHS! for the love of the flying spaghetti monster use paragraphs!


im lillitarate but how many languages can you speak?
talk.



I've forgotten Spanish, Italian, and Russian from lack of usage after uni (not that I was ever any good at them anyway)Oops ... so currently, English and a smattering of random words/phrases from the afore-mentioned languages ...

Not that I really know what that has to do with the complaint of DC using walls of text... ?


how cant you forget?
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#204 - 2013-11-07 16:45:49 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:

14th Wikipedia link of the conversation.

You are doing your high-school debating team proud. Now how about discussing the points rather than just picking the most appropriate canned arguement you can find to allow yourself to dismiss the opposing view without actually having to justify your stance? On the bright side, you would have a promising future in politics!


Actually, that link isn't to wikipedia, nor was any other link I provided. It sounds like you have a basic problem with me providing links and refusing to argue against points that are nothing more than logical fallacies. If people in this thread can't be arsed to present an argument in a rational manner and support it with valid evidence, then why should I have to pretend that they are?

The rules of logic are set in stone. You can't ignore them and have a rational argument any more than you can ignore them while programming and have a program that runs like it should. Garbage in, garbage out. I won't pretend it doesn't stink to accommodate the intellectually lazy.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#205 - 2013-11-07 16:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Cyborg 497 wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
WTB Extra tank for highsec carebear tears. Current tanks are already full.


Also, if a 100 man indy corp gets wardecced by a 7 man PvP corp....wow, the odds are 100:7. But instead of fighting together in a PVP GAME, you come here to whine about EVE being unfair.


Tip: EVE isnt fair. HTFU or go play a different theme park game.


You ignored my example about that: when the aggressors were challenged they stayed docked up in a station. They also rarely logged in, yet decced as many corps as they could pay for, costly themselves a few 100miliion, costing the many defenders several billions!

Meanwhile the 7-man corp chuckled as they thought to themselves, "How dangerous we are, to declare war on so many!"

The balance is clearly wrong IMO and needs a neutral head of CCP to examine it.

Tip: Go play GTA yourself!


So. The aggressors dont log on. HOW is that affecting the defenders. They cant kill you when not logged in. I have mined and missioned in the past while under a wardec. Add them to your watchlist, be on your toes when one of them is online. If they are all offline, what is different then not wardecced.

YOU are exactly the kind that is wrong with EVE. Expecting a complete safe enviroment and CCPs help all the time.

Let me repeat it again: CCP themself stated that highsec is NOT completely safe, just a bit safer. They dont want WoW inspace like you want. The stuff is working as intended. EVE is Darwinism at its best, adapt or die... A 100 man indy corp can wreck havoc to any PvP corp that decs them. They have numbers, they can build their own supplies. They just need a big pair of balls and tactics, but.most only care about 1 thing, their own carebearing size of their wallets

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Velicitia
XS Tech
#206 - 2013-11-07 16:46:03 UTC
fuer0n wrote:


how cant you forget?



Assuming you're asking "how can I forget" those languages ... well, it's kind of difficult to remember them 6+ years after you've studied them for only a brief period of time (each one approximately 2 semesters) -- especially when what you do know hardly constitutes as "fluent".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2013-11-07 16:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Princess Bride wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:

14th Wikipedia link of the conversation.

You are doing your high-school debating team proud. Now how about discussing the points rather than just picking the most appropriate canned arguement you can find to allow yourself to dismiss the opposing view without actually having to justify your stance? On the bright side, you would have a promising future in politics!


Actually, that link isn't to wikipedia, nor was any other link I provided. It sounds like you have a basic problem with me providing links and refusing to argue against points that are nothing more than logical fallacies. If people in this thread can't be arsed to present an argument in a rational manner and support it with valid evidence, then why should I have to pretend that they are?

The rules of logic are set in stone. You can't ignore them and have a rational argument any more than you can ignore them while programming and have a program that runs like it should. Garbage in, garbage out. I won't pretend it doesn't stink to accommodate the intellectually lazy.



you stink. that was a given .
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#208 - 2013-11-07 16:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Velicitia wrote:
fuer0n wrote:


how cant you forget?



Assuming you're asking "how can I forget" those languages ... well, it's kind of difficult to remember them 6+ years after you've studied them for only a brief period of time (each one approximately 2 semesters) -- especially when what you do know hardly constitutes as "fluent".


**** you

get down and talk to the locals next time best advice can give you if your telling the truth

you might rember it.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#209 - 2013-11-07 16:54:59 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


So. The aggressors dont log on. HOW is that affecting the defenders. They cant kill you when not logged in. I have mined and missioned in the past while under a wardec. Add them to your watchlist, be on your toes when one of them is online. If they are all offline, what is different then not wardecced.


It's probably some variation of thinking "every gate in lowsec is camped" (because we all know that's true*). Although I will cede that with certain tactics (*cough*OOC alts and logon traps*cough*) there's always the possibility you'll get stomped on the undock.


Also, if you do get dec'd, I'll join in ... I'll probably do more dying in hilarious and avoidable ways than anything; but it'll be fun anyway.


*In case anyone's concerned - I know it's not.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#210 - 2013-11-07 16:55:43 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
WTB Extra tank for highsec carebear tears. Current tanks are already full.


Also, if a 100 man indy corp gets wardecced by a 7 man PvP corp....wow, the odds are 100:7. But instead of fighting together in a PVP GAME, you come here to whine about EVE being unfair.


Tip: EVE isnt fair. HTFU or go play a different theme park game.


You ignored my example about that: when the aggressors were challenged they stayed docked up in a station. They also rarely logged in, yet decced as many corps as they could pay for, costly themselves a few 100miliion, costing the many defenders several billions!

Meanwhile the 7-man corp chuckled as they thought to themselves, "How dangerous we are, to declare war on so many!"

The balance is clearly wrong IMO and needs a neutral head of CCP to examine it.

Tip: Go play GTA yourself!


So. The aggressors dont log on. HOW is that affecting the defenders. They cant kill you when not logged in. I have mined and missioned in the past while under a wardec. Add them to your watchlist, be on your toes when one of them is online. If they are all offline, what is different then not wardecced.

YOU are exactly the kind that is wrong with EVE. Expecting a complete safe enviroment and CCPs help all the time.

Let me repeat it again: CCP themself stated that highsec is NOT completely safe, just a bit safer. They dont want WoW inspace like you want. The stuff is working as intended. EVE is Darwinism at its best, adapt or die... A 100 man indy corp can wreck havoc to any PvP corp that decs them. They have numbers, they can build their own supplies. They just need a big pair of balls and tactics, but.most only care about 1 thing, their own carebearing size of their wallets


It has absolutley nothing to do with current mechanics. It is all about the mind set behind the key board.

Due to the fact they are deficient, in the ability to mentally deal with the situation, they want CCP to build a handicap accessible mechanic to make it fair.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#211 - 2013-11-07 16:56:13 UTC
fuer0n wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
fuer0n wrote:


how cant you forget?



Assuming you're asking "how can I forget" those languages ... well, it's kind of difficult to remember them 6+ years after you've studied them for only a brief period of time (each one approximately 2 semesters) -- especially when what you do know hardly constitutes as "fluent".


**** you

get down and talk to the locals next time best advice can give you if your telling the truth


it's quite difficult to talk to the "locals" when they're half a world awayCry. Flights across the Atlantic are expensive...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#212 - 2013-11-07 16:57:57 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Cyborg 497 wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
WTB Extra tank for highsec carebear tears. Current tanks are already full.


Also, if a 100 man indy corp gets wardecced by a 7 man PvP corp....wow, the odds are 100:7. But instead of fighting together in a PVP GAME, you come here to whine about EVE being unfair.


Tip: EVE isnt fair. HTFU or go play a different theme park game.


You ignored my example about that: when the aggressors were challenged they stayed docked up in a station. They also rarely logged in, yet decced as many corps as they could pay for, costly themselves a few 100miliion, costing the many defenders several billions!

Meanwhile the 7-man corp chuckled as they thought to themselves, "How dangerous we are, to declare war on so many!"

The balance is clearly wrong IMO and needs a neutral head of CCP to examine it.

Tip: Go play GTA yourself!


So. The aggressors dont log on. HOW is that affecting the defenders. They cant kill you when not logged in. I have mined and missioned in the past while under a wardec. Add them to your watchlist, be on your toes when one of them is online. If they are all offline, what is different then not wardecced.

YOU are exactly the kind that is wrong with EVE. Expecting a complete safe enviroment and CCPs help all the time.

Let me repeat it again: CCP themself stated that highsec is NOT completely safe, just a bit safer. They dont want WoW inspace like you want. The stuff is working as intended. EVE is Darwinism at its best, adapt or die... A 100 man indy corp can wreck havoc to any PvP corp that decs them. They have numbers, they can build their own supplies. They just need a big pair of balls and tactics, but.most only care about 1 thing, their own carebearing size of their wallets


It has absolutley nothing to do with current mechanics. It is all about the mind set behind the key board.

Due to the fact they are deficient, in the ability to mentally deal with the situation, they want CCP to build a handicap accessible mechanic to make it fair.


tl:dr for those carebears:

You guys want Hello Kitty Online - In Space.

Well, EVE isn't that.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2013-11-07 16:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Velicitia wrote:
fuer0n wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
fuer0n wrote:


how cant you forget?



Assuming you're asking "how can I forget" those languages ... well, it's kind of difficult to remember them 6+ years after you've studied them for only a brief period of time (each one approximately 2 semesters) -- especially when what you do know hardly constitutes as "fluent".


**** you

get down and talk to the locals next time best advice can give you if your telling the truth


it's quite difficult to talk to the "locals" when they're half a world awayCry. Flights across the Atlantic are expensive...




well deal with it. ill borrow you my bike.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#214 - 2013-11-07 17:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
fuer0n wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
fuer0n wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
fuer0n wrote:


how cant you forget?



Assuming you're asking "how can I forget" those languages ... well, it's kind of difficult to remember them 6+ years after you've studied them for only a brief period of time (each one approximately 2 semesters) -- especially when what you do know hardly constitutes as "fluent".


**** you

get down and talk to the locals next time best advice can give you if your telling the truth


it's quite difficult to talk to the "locals" when they're half a world awayCry. Flights across the Atlantic are expensive...




well deal with it. ill borrow you my bike.


Btw, fixing a stupid grammar error in your English:

In order:

1.) how cant you forget?

Should be; How can you forget?

2.) get down and talk to the locals next time best advice can give you if your telling the truth

Should be: Get down and talk to the locals next time. That's the best advice I can give if you're telling the truth

3.) well deal with it. ill borrow you my bike

Should be: Well deal with it. I'll borrow you my bike


So, don't start talking language / grammar if you suck it at yourself. Only go Grammar Nazi if you know what YOU'RE doing.

p.s. English is NOT my native language.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Velicitia
XS Tech
#215 - 2013-11-07 17:32:15 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


Btw, fixing a stupid grammar error in your English:

(stuff)

3.) well deal with it. ill borrow you my bike

Should be: Well deal with it. I'll borrow you my bike


So, don't start talking language / grammar if you suck it at yourself. Only go Grammar **** if you know what YOU'RE doing.

p.s. English is NOT my native language.


Dunno if this is UK-English, but over here (America) one would say "I'll lend you my bike".

In either case, a bike will be terrible for crossing the Atlantic Ocean. However, enough money to purchase a plane ticket would work ... but as I said, it's expensive -- $1000 for a round-trip ticket from the local international airport to Copenhagen, Denmark --> I hear it's a beautiful city -- and this is before you consider hotel, food, transportation, etc.


BUT ANYWAY; to get back on topic ... wars are still fine, complaining about them is not fine. Solutions are numerous:

1. Learn PvP yourself (generally by losing loads of cheap frigates), either alone or when your corp gets dec'd or by joining RvB.
2. Learn PvP from classes (e.g. Agony Unleashed)
3. Learn PvP from your corpies (e.g. Brave Newbies/E-UNI)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#216 - 2013-11-07 17:38:56 UTC
War deccing miners isn't war. What is happening with Stain Wagon and N3 is war.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#217 - 2013-11-07 17:41:14 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
War deccing miners isn't war. What is happening with Stain Wagon and N3 is war.


Wars come in different flavours and sizes.

RvB is also a war...but also a special type of war in itself.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#218 - 2013-11-07 17:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
itsd dark and dry and i can see the stars im a go out for an 8 hour "walk" cant sleep mostly might as well go out. up lot suck.

please dont change what i typed or i might get more than a little annoyed. you lot suck. there i go again.

are the new bases scanable?
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#219 - 2013-11-07 17:48:58 UTC
War doesn't make people quit. Sitting in stations not doing anything makes people quit.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#220 - 2013-11-07 17:54:26 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
But to answer the title of the thread.

No, wars dont make people leave. People leave because they find out that EVE isnt the game for them. EVE has always been a PvP centered game, if you are expecting it to be carebear heaven you will be disapointed and leave. This doesnt mean the game is wrong or at fault, it means that EVE isnt your type of game.


This actually happened to a friend of mine who tried EVE for 3 months. After that he just acknowledged that EVE wasnt for him as he was really into PvE and nothing more. But unlike all the whining carebears in this thread and generally on the forums, he did see it in the right way: The game wasnt wrong or broken, it was just not the game for him.


+1 for at least addressing the topic with your opinion.

But then you fall right into the same false dilemma so many in this thread seem to gravitate to. Contemplating changes to the wardec system which may help new player retention DOES NOT EQUAL expecting Eve to be carebear heaven. You can make changes that help noobs survive the learning curve without killing Eve. The proof is in the patch notes and dev blogs. Similar changes have been made in the past without killing the game.

Did you stop to consider that maybe the reason your friend worded his explanation so tactfully is because he didn't want you to think of him as "a whining carebear" because he's your friend? The important questions that arise in my mind when I hear a story about someone quitting before they have a chance to learn anything are:

1) Is it possible that a few changes here or there to give noobs some breathing room to learn the game might have resulted in him staying instead of quitting?
2) Should CCP be trying to make the game less exclusive, and more inclusive, so that more people can participate while preserving the essence of the game's dangerous nature?

I think a lot of the players who desperately resist ANY change that helps new players get their footing are in love with the idea that the MMO world views Eve as "hard". They tie their ego to this, and proudly proclaim to their online buddies that they're "Eve Players" as a badge of honor. Anything that threatens Eve's reputation as an absurdly difficult game weakens their own self image as people who play the hardest MMO on the net. These people are never going to listen to arguments for inclusion, because they like it being exclusive. Everyone wants to be a member of the exclusive club, no? They are proud of their "accomplishment" in surviving Eve, and the less people who do, the more impressive their accomplishment appears. So in the end, they don't want new players to make it, because the more members a club has, the less exclusive it is, and the less impressive their accomplishment appears.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/