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Can we do something about the idiots in highsec already CCP?

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Author
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#441 - 2013-11-08 12:30:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
edit: this post is just about the miner gank not targetted at general ganking(s).

You don't need a tank to escape a miner gank, just watch local, add the baddies on watchlist and d-scan, you can fit ZERO tank if you're not AFK.

This comes from an experienced low sec ninja miner and high sec 24/7 mining. (this means a lot LOL jk)
Why just last week I got 10 destroyers (in a weeks time) warping in and even though I could warp out before they arrived on grid I was pre aligned as usual and waited till the last second to **** them off xD so much fun!

Trust me if you're annoyed at being ganked as a miner your neighborhood gankers will be 10x more pissed if every belt they warped to had a miner flee before they got there.

Yes I am of the few that enjoy mining.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#442 - 2013-11-08 12:34:28 UTC
oh i've been ganked by gangs of three. it's trivial to set up and the costs are low. if the costs get high then player organisations will fund it. whatever keeps the lolwagon a rollin' really.

so i made one last attempt at AFK mining, with my FU skiff fit and orca.

I lasted a night. if i can't AFK and yield whore then there's nuthin' in it for me. it's just dull, dull dull.

forums.  serious business.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2013-11-08 12:45:14 UTC
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

WOW. I cry for all the money spent on education. What a waste.

If you had been able to comprehend the first sentence you would have seen that I said "IF". And "5 T1 cats only cost 10 million (doing 1000+ dps). The number 1 in that sentence corresponds to ONE (CAT) while the number 5 corresponds to FIVE (CAT, CAT, CAT, CAT, CAT). Clearly the sentence "Since 5 T1 cats only cost 10 million (doing 1000+ dps)" refers to the cumalative of 5 (FIVE) (CINCO) (CAT, CAT, CAT, CAT, CAT) dps... Jesus H Obama.

I'm often embarrassed reading EvE forum posts, not for myself but for the people responding... Its like arguing with a bunch of Elmo's...

Let me tell you a little secret: many miners DO tank their boats to at least some extent and they DO work. Which is why the vast majority of ganked miner boats are shite/yield/idiot fitted...

Your claim that 'they' would simply use more cata's. I doubt it, you don't 'just bring more cata's'. That requires more buddies/accounts/trained alts and more coordination and is more time consuming. The result of all that would be that there would be less ganks, which translates to a (much) lower risk of getting ganked.

So unless you are able to create buddies/accounts/trained alts out of thin air tanks DO work.


Again, I'm a solo ganker. If everyone would max tank their barge/exhumer I'd be pretty much done, the only gankable target for a near max DPS catalyst would be Covetors in 0.5, barely. Which would mean I'd have but a few kills on my killboard instead of dozens.

My point was that people don't tank their barges because its relatively pointless. If they all tanked them they'd still get ganked. Its cheap and easy to do. Now a solo miner ganker like you might be out of business but the New Orders and Bat Country corps don't do it for the isk, they do it for the notoriety and kill mails. They're funded quite well so the isk is no issue. Bat Country has kills on empty freighters....

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
WE FORM BL0B
#444 - 2013-11-08 12:45:58 UTC
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:
High-sec gankers are like somking addicts. They are mad because no everybody likes smoking. So they go into a no-smoking area and start smoking, hoping people will start to like it. No, they won't. What CCP is doing? They just send security:
"- Sir, Im afarid you have to leave this room for 15 minuts. After that you can come back and smoke untill we're back"
Suicide gankers aka smoking addicts should be punished for high-sec ganking (smoking in a no-smoking area) in such way they would start thinking is it really worth doing it.

In my eyes they are losers who cant get any kill on their kb in real pvp. Instead they just kill 0isk shuttles and pods to get their kb filled. After that they dare to wipe their mouth saying "h-sec should not be save oneone!!


Here's this interesting phenomenon again...

"go do real pvp".

PvP is, by definition, "player vs player". Shooting a miner is therefore unconditionally pvp. I mean, unless you're outright admitting that miners are bots?

So, what's the difference? Why is "real pvp" considered shooting at, as best I can tell, people who aren't you?


Real pvp involves a risk, even a little. Suicide ganking cant be called "any fancy name" or real pvp. Suicide gankers killing shuttles and pods are special kind of loosers tho.


Ganking is a cost not a risk, and a cost/benefit calculation is just as valid as a risk/reward calculation in an economic simulator like Eve.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#445 - 2013-11-08 12:58:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its getting old. Every second or third jump there are idiot alts in destroyers ganking people. My computer almost died yesterday loading hundreds of concord ships at a high sec gate. Spending weeks in null dodging Goons and then come back to supposedly safe space and its more of the same crap.

You guys changed siphons because they were too cheap and griefer like for the big alliances after their big whine fest. Man up and do something about the state of high sec and their alt gankers.

No I haven't been ganked but its annoying to have to make every single high sec jump and not be able to afk at all in "safe space" even in a crappy non faction fitted frigate and its annoying to see people killing other people in high sec with no risk in cheap lame ass destroyers - make them work for it, this is EvE Online, its not Counterstrike.

Killing other players should require skill, it should require brains, it should require risk and it should require a war dec or going to low sec or null sec.

At the moment all it requires is a cheap destroyer and a low skilled alt account.

This is not the game that you guys designed, I have been here since the beginning and when things did get to the point that this sort of rubbish was happening, you adjusted Concord or you adjusted DPS or EHP.

Time to fix your game in this respect, its crap and broken.


Ten years and you still don't know how to play this game. Roll
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#446 - 2013-11-08 12:59:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

My point was that people don't tank their barges because its relatively pointless. If they all tanked them they'd still get ganked. Its cheap and easy to do. Now a solo miner ganker like you might be out of business but the New Orders and Bat Country corps don't do it for the isk, they do it for the notoriety and kill mails. They're funded quite well so the isk is no issue. Bat Country has kills on empty freighters....

Bat Country are most certainly in it for the ISK. Just because they have been gambled on courier wraps and lost or had a bad scouting call doesn't mean that profit isn't what drives the target selection.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2013-11-08 13:36:24 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

My point was that people don't tank their barges because its relatively pointless. If they all tanked them they'd still get ganked. Its cheap and easy to do. Now a solo miner ganker like you might be out of business but the New Orders and Bat Country corps don't do it for the isk, they do it for the notoriety and kill mails. They're funded quite well so the isk is no issue. Bat Country has kills on empty freighters....


The NO also can't create accounts,members,trained alts, fitted ships, sec status or time to spend out of thin air, they aren't God even if James is more or less role playing he is (which is hilarious btw and I applaud him for doing it). The heavier you tank, the more you'll need of all those resources to gank. Simple logic dictates you cannot gank more than what your resources allow for. More tank (and ecm)=higher resource costs=less total ganks=lower risk of getting ganked=TANK WORKS.

As for isk: done well (being able to scoop up your destroyers remains and stealing the miner's loot drop) the cost of ganking is break even-ish. That offcourse changes when you have to throw multiple 10 million cata's at a single target. Yes, a t2 cata costs 10 million.

As for the NO's resources: http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/01/advanced-skill-training-terror-weapons.html Apparently those do matter...
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#448 - 2013-11-08 14:06:22 UTC
"Been here since 2003" is meaningless...

Things change, that's life...

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...

Tsufuri Ormand
NE Procurement
#449 - 2013-11-08 14:30:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:
High-sec gankers are like somking addicts. They are mad because no everybody likes smoking. So they go into a no-smoking area and start smoking, hoping people will start to like it. No, they won't. What CCP is doing? They just send security:
"- Sir, Im afarid you have to leave this room for 15 minuts. After that you can come back and smoke untill we're back"
Suicide gankers aka smoking addicts should be punished for high-sec ganking (smoking in a no-smoking area) in such way they would start thinking is it really worth doing it.

In my eyes they are losers who cant get any kill on their kb in real pvp. Instead they just kill 0isk shuttles and pods to get their kb filled. After that they dare to wipe their mouth saying "h-sec should not be save oneone!!


Here's this interesting phenomenon again...

"go do real pvp".

PvP is, by definition, "player vs player". Shooting a miner is therefore unconditionally pvp. I mean, unless you're outright admitting that miners are bots?

So, what's the difference? Why is "real pvp" considered shooting at, as best I can tell, people who aren't you?


Real pvp involves a risk, even a little. Suicide ganking cant be called "any fancy name" or real pvp. Suicide gankers killing shuttles and pods are special kind of loosers tho.


So, you attempt to redefine an industry term to discredit an activity you personally do not approve of? Is that about the gist of it?


I think that calling suicide gankers smoke addicts of eve is an objective statement. It has nothing to do with me approving or not. Make punishment for high-sec ganking more severe, so that gankers actually lose something and I will give suicide ganking my seal of approval.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2013-11-08 14:34:13 UTC
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:


I think that calling suicide gankers smoke addicts of eve is an objective statement. It has nothing to do with me approving or not. Make punishment for high-sec ganking more severe, so that gankers actually lose something and I will give suicide ganking my seal of approval.


It's already pretty severe. If it wasn't severe ppl would not make alts and spend training time on them but they'd just do it with their mains.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2013-11-08 14:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Meilandra Vanderganken
Killboard of the New Order alliance: https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002775/

Just looked at the first 10 barge and first 10 exhumer ganks. I'd suggest anyone who is on the anti-ganker side to do the same and tell me what you think about those victim's fittings and the security status of the system they were mining in.

Really, go do it and give your honest opinion. I'm especially curious how you guys think about ppl who leave mid slots open btw.


Also, there is not a single Skiff or Procurer on the first page of their killboard, why is that I wonder? Could it be cuz they are harder to kill?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#452 - 2013-11-08 14:55:36 UTC
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:


I think that calling suicide gankers smoke addicts of eve is an objective statement. It has nothing to do with me approving or not. Make punishment for high-sec ganking more severe, so that gankers actually lose something and I will give suicide ganking my seal of approval.


Every time you attempt a suicide gank:



Ganker is open to attack from everyone
Ganker can fail to kill the target
Ganker faces a 50% chance of loot not dropping at all
Ganker will be hit with a sec status loss resulting in being open to attack from everyone
Ganker will be locked out of a ship for 15 min
Ganker will have a killright against them that is sellable and can be activated at any time
Gankers loot ship may be attacked
Gankers loot may be stolen by someone else
Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank
Gankers void their ship insurance

Suicide ganking is the single most punished activity in this game.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#453 - 2013-11-08 14:58:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank
Now that you mention it…

…how much does it cost to gank a one of those 10M T2-gank destroyers? Twisted
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#454 - 2013-11-08 15:07:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank
Now that you mention it…

…how much does it cost to gank a one of those 10M T2-gank destroyers? Twisted


We here at Bat Country have a t1 frigate for such a thing. So long as we salvage the victim and scoop at least 3 t2 things then we are in profit.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#455 - 2013-11-08 15:13:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We here at Bat Country have a t1 frigate for such a thing. So long as we salvage the victim and scoop at least 3 t2 things then we are in profit.

Why am I not surprised. Lol

…and with high-dps destroyers sporting 8 T2 guns just for starters, the odds of getting 3+ seem pretty good.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#456 - 2013-11-08 15:17:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank
Now that you mention it…

…how much does it cost to gank a one of those 10M T2-gank destroyers? Twisted


We here at Bat Country have a t1 frigate for such a thing. So long as we salvage the victim and scoop at least 3 t2 things then we are in profit.


interested.

forums.  serious business.

Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#457 - 2013-11-08 15:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Meilandra Vanderganken
Tippia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank
Now that you mention it…

…how much does it cost to gank a one of those 10M T2-gank destroyers? Twisted

Without having exact numbers, you can gank a 10M T2 cata with a not even 3M t1 cata no problems. You'll even have time to pod (provided the ganker is AFK).

I encourage you to do this, seriously! Go find some New order agents (look them up at minerbumping.com) and go gank them!

Contrary to popular belief it does however require some skill and effort to gank so don't be surprised if you fail a few times. I fumbled my few first ganks due to silly mistakes as loading the wrong ammo, not overheating or not properly figuring out how much EHP the target had.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#458 - 2013-11-08 15:19:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank
Now that you mention it…

…how much does it cost to gank a one of those 10M T2-gank destroyers? Twisted


We here at Bat Country have a t1 frigate for such a thing. So long as we salvage the victim and scoop at least 3 t2 things then we are in profit.

Mind EVE mailing me the fit? I'd figure it out myself but I have no skills I'm told :(
Tsufuri Ormand
NE Procurement
#459 - 2013-11-08 15:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsufuri Ormand
baltec1 wrote:
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:


I think that calling suicide gankers smoke addicts of eve is an objective statement. It has nothing to do with me approving or not. Make punishment for high-sec ganking more severe, so that gankers actually lose something and I will give suicide ganking my seal of approval.


Every time you attempt a suicide gank:



Ganker is open to attack from everyone
Ganker can fail to kill the target
Ganker faces a 50% chance of loot not dropping at all
Ganker will be hit with a sec status loss resulting in being open to attack from everyone
Ganker will be locked out of a ship for 15 min
Ganker will have a killright against them that is sellable and can be activated at any time
Gankers loot ship may be attacked
Gankers loot may be stolen by someone else
Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank
Gankers void their ship insurance

Suicide ganking is the single most punished activity in this game.


Here you go.
Ganker killing autopilot shuttles with 0 isk cargo and pods:

Ganker is open to attack from everyone:
Shuttle pilot wont shoot you. What are the chances that somebody will appear and shoot you in the timeframe between you shooting at target and concord blowing you up? Taking into account #2 you dont care if you get blown up by concord or other player.

Ganker can fail to kill the target:
How can you fail to kill afk shuttle or pod?

Ganker faces a 50% chance of loot not dropping at all:
50% of 0 isk is 0 isk. No gambling involved at all

Ganker will be hit with a sec status loss resulting in being open to attack from everyone:
Again, what are the chances of that. When you check suicide gankers kb how often do you see loses? This means that they do not get attacked often. I'd say they are not attacked at all (almost)

Ganker will be locked out of a ship for 15 min:
Seriously? This is a punishment? Make this, you go gcc and cant dock, then it will be fine.

Ganker will have a killright against them that is sellable and can be activated at any time:
Like -10 players care for killrights.

Gankers loot ship may be attacked:
What do you want to loot from empty shuttles.

Gankers loot may be stolen by someone else:
What loot?

Gankers fly ships that are ironically profitable to gank:
Stupid t1 fit catas or thrashers?

Gankers void their ship insurance
Destroyers are so cheap I wouldnt care.

Just to make it clear. Go gank frieghters or barges. Its perfectly fine with me. Killing shuttles and pods is a big nono for me due to 'look above'. Make changes to the game so that punishment is severe enough to repel gankers from empty shuttles and pods (aka nonprofit targets), but keep it low enough so they can gank friegthers etc with profit.
Ginger Barbarella
#460 - 2013-11-08 15:28:49 UTC
Bad troll is bad. Even for a forum mouth-breather like Infinity.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac