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Can we do something about the idiots in highsec already CCP?

First post First post
Author
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#221 - 2013-11-05 21:41:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
What on earth are you on about? No one's going to gank your frigate or shuttle unless you're carrying something worth stealing.


oh it happens. i can't post the KM because of 'rules.'

you can eve-kill me and find it though. most pitiful bounty payout ever lol.

Excuse me for interjecting, but if you are ganked while flying a shuttle or frigate that has no value or valuable cargo... why would you care?


Nobody suicide ganks empty shuttles.


I saw an Apotheosis at a gate the other day and kicked myself for not having any guns.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#222 - 2013-11-05 21:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Fey Ivory wrote:
i wanted to make a thread about this, but i can as well reply to this, i think some should try read and actually understand what OP is saying...

Highsec shouldent be idiot safe, thats not what OP is saying, the problem is the corsepondance of what doing crimes in highsec entails, if you do it, you get punished, and the punishment should allways be in such a way that it actually hurts, and not just for those that just have started playing the game, wich points us back to what OP is trying to say... there is no punishment in highsec, if you have the means to cover the looses, for suicide ganks, wich makes the whole idea with, you >should< get punished in highsec if you violate its rules, void Roll

Make a idiot proof system, and someone will invent a better idiot !


The only MMOs that last a player more than a year require item loss (general consumption, not just consumable potions) in order to keep the market functional. The only other way around that is for the developer to start the mudflation themepark treadmill.

ie ships have to die, no matter what sec they are in. We wouldn't have concord if the designers didn't want ganking, we'd have a straitjacket that prevented you firing. it appears the balancing point for the designers is no solo industrial ganking of T2 fitted ships for profit, ie the ganker has to do better than "no research and no cooperation" to profit.

Anyone sitting around for an hour for a failed gank, lost a considerable amount of isk in opportunity cost terms, not counting the shiploss. ie it is considerably more punishing than just losing the ship even when you succeed.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#223 - 2013-11-05 22:06:46 UTC
"Verily, I have often laughed at the fools who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#224 - 2013-11-05 22:07:07 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Excuse me for interjecting, but if you are ganked while flying a shuttle or frigate that has no value or valuable cargo... why would you care?


i don't but for the outrage that is players not observing the amoral pursuit of wealth in a randian wet dream sci fi dystopian universe. these 'lulz' are not a trade-able commodity AFAIK.

forums.  serious business.

Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2013-11-05 22:08:59 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
This is strange, I have never been ganked in highsec and my cargohold is most of the time worth it.




Watchlisting, sending out pings to nearby badpeople. Enjoy. Pirate

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#226 - 2013-11-05 22:09:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nobody suicide ganks empty shuttles.


www.minerbumping.com

forums.  serious business.

Clyde Belvar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#227 - 2013-11-05 22:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Clyde Belvar
People who defend ganking are A:those who profit from that.
B:those who never getting ganked.
C:CCP

So people A :Big alliance who needs sell those ships they make,so more ganks more isk for them.

People in B:Again smart old school indies in jf's who no need jump through gates to make living.

People C: Reason why ccp is not doing anything is simple,every time people loose large amount of isk they may buy plex,which is nice profit making on top of subscriptions.

Only people loosing in this are new players(o-1.5y).They don't have jf's to jump around,they can't afford loosing large amount of isk each day,so they buy plex or quit.

I understand eve does need isk sink for game to be working,but problem people are having is that ganking is way too easy,so its getting out of control.Make ganking harder make griefers pay for they actions,make holes in they pockets every time they gank someone.
We no need better ehp ships,it won't help,its not about how you fit your ship,if gankers want to gank you they will do it no matter what you fly.

P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2013-11-05 22:37:28 UTC
Clyde Belvar wrote:


P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?


Idea
Load up your freighter's cargo hold with repackaged HAC's from all 4 races between your 100+ million implants while you autopilot it from Jita to Rens. The HAC's have high racial resistances and will add enough extra EHP to your freighter to make it ungankable to anything but a fleet of several hundred battleships, which will lag out the system when they open fire so badly the gank will fail anyway.

It's not that hard really....
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#229 - 2013-11-05 22:40:22 UTC
Carebear themepark tears, i love this.

The Tears Must Flow

Clyde Belvar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2013-11-05 22:41:32 UTC
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
Clyde Belvar wrote:


P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?


Idea
Load up your freighter's cargo hold with repackaged HAC's from all 4 races between your 100+ million implants while you autopilot it from Jita to Rens. The HAC's have high racial resistances and will add enough extra EHP to your freighter to make it ungankable to anything but a fleet of several hundred battleships, which will lag out the system when they open fire so badly the gank will fail anyway.

It's not that hard really....


Oh wow thanks will try this now :D
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#231 - 2013-11-05 22:42:51 UTC
Clyde Belvar wrote:
P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?


You can reduce the chance of getting ganked by appearing to be a less juicy target than others around you. While not always true, it can help if it costs more to gank your freighter than the profit to be made from it. Esp. if others are totally disregarding this rule flying nearby you (ie a busy trade route, where most freighter ganks happen).

Also I have dabbled in suicide ganking but I am neither A, B, nor C in your definition. In fact the last suicide gank I did was a miner who was a corpmate of someone I just ganked in low sec, and I did it for lolz.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2013-11-05 22:47:35 UTC
Clyde Belvar wrote:
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
Clyde Belvar wrote:


P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?


Idea
Load up your freighter's cargo hold with repackaged HAC's from all 4 races between your 100+ million implants while you autopilot it from Jita to Rens. The HAC's have high racial resistances and will add enough extra EHP to your freighter to make it ungankable to anything but a fleet of several hundred battleships, which will lag out the system when they open fire so badly the gank will fail anyway.

It's not that hard really....


Oh wow thanks will try this now :D

Alternatively you could simply not put so much value into the thing that it would be profitable to gank. That would save you from 99.99% of al ganks.

Nah forget it, crazy idea, go with the first one indeed!
Clyde Belvar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#233 - 2013-11-05 22:49:41 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
Clyde Belvar wrote:
P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?


You can reduce the chance of getting ganked by appearing to be a less juicy target than others around you. While not always true, it can help if it costs more to gank your freighter than the profit to be made from it. Esp. if others are totally disregarding this rule flying nearby you (ie a busy trade route, where most freighter ganks happen).

Also I have dabbled in suicide ganking but I am neither A, B, nor C in your definition. In fact the last suicide gank I did was a miner who was a corpmate of someone I just ganked in low sec, and I did it for lolz.


Well last time my freighter was ganked it had 100 mil worth of stuff in it,so people are doing it for lolz sometimes,its just so easy to gank someone in this game thats why so many doing it.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#234 - 2013-11-05 22:50:27 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Digits Kho wrote:
Sir, most ships in eve are lost due to mistakes / laziness / inattentiveness

Sir... RollBlink

I'm not saying that isn't true... what I'm saying is: The market is changing, and gamers are changing... folks like Solstice may not really care about that, but the small and "cozy" playerbase CCP has gathered here will not be forever, and the way the game is right now, I don't see much new blood coming to fill the ranks.

Also: The game HAS been going in a... "worrying" direction for the last couple of months... there is no denying that.


Going the sandbox mmo-rpg way is "worrying"? Nice to know what a themeparker thinks of EvE Online.

The Tears Must Flow

Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2013-11-05 22:51:14 UTC
How to start a threadnaught 101:
Post in GD that Hi Sec is too dangerous.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#236 - 2013-11-05 22:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
well they probably think it;s a bit weird to stare at a nob shaped spaceship for 3 hours and then press F1.

Re: themeparkers. no accounting for taste though.

forums.  serious business.

Zheng'Yi Sao
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#237 - 2013-11-05 23:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zheng'Yi Sao
IDK...

I've spent my first few months in hi-sec. I just fly paranoid. I always align when I mine, I am always at the keyboard when I mine. Being WarDec'd recently vastly improved my game play. Frankly, I get tired of other lazy miners not making the most of their cycles and surveyors. Time is money. Don't waste my time. I don't auto pilot either. The way I see it, if you are going to load up a big fat pig, hit auto pilot, and walk away, you deserve what you get. It is just proper economics to gank such targets as they come through. Really, honestly, this is EVE. Are you really going to cry to CCP instead of defending yourselves? You carebears are an embarassment to us carebears. HTFU. I would rather die in my under-fit frigate than pay extortion or cry.

When I first read about Minerbumping.com I thought a couple things. One, I suppose in some perverse way I saw their point. Second, I thought they were hypocrites offering a indulgence instead of just carrying on their crusade. It quickly occured to me this was just a method by which to extort 10m from fools who actually believed they would be honored. Just proper economics.

I just wish gankers would form a proper corporation. Join a union. Make yourselves a target. War reduces the themepark to low sec real quick; but they won't. It has nothing to do with having to face a thempark of angry carebears. They just aren't high enough caliber. I in one moment hate them and in another love them. They enjoy what they do because they enjoy the carebear tears. Hell, I am a carebear (?) and I enjoy the carebear tears. Trolls can't eat if they aren't fed, why do people never learn? Same reason they continue to autopilot through Hi-Sec I suppose. Hell, I might have to join in on frieghter ganking if idiots keep leaving so much ISK in the open...

I suppose I am saying thank you for making me a better pilot. I am also saying man up and make yourself a proper target.
You will kill my 4m skillpoint (half industry) noob nine times out of ten, but eventually I will get you. But you aren't really about making the game a better place, or me a better pilot. Most of you are proper trolls, and that is that. Then again, this is why EVE is the whacky place that it is EVE.

So I say go to hell, and carry on...

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#238 - 2013-11-05 23:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Shalua Rui wrote:
Clyde Belvar wrote:
I wonder how many new players quit eve after they got ganked in noobie ships.

Nah... it's acttually like: How many potential players never even start the game because of everything they read/hear about it...

...so, yea, either a) CCP completely breaks the game for gankers at some point, or b) lives with what they have got, and probably loose more players in the future. *shrugs*

There are enough people in this game that are completely fine with the latter option, though.



Well what I think people are missing is that while most of the players know it's a game and what the game is all about, there's a "why bother" approach to it.

While gankers can be dealt with by flying smart, at a certain point it feels like babysitting. I used to get this feeling in other MMOs when they reached the point where the 12y/o kids all seemed to discover it at once. Even if you can beat them, avoid them, or ignore them, taking measures to do so becomes tedious. They are not really playing a game. This could a game of any genre at this point. Heck this could be Hello Kitty Online with pink guns even. But once you are taking measures "around" the intentions of people who are not playing towards the spirit and objectives of the game, but rather doing it for RL jollies (something possibly related to alpha-aspergers or being put on Ritalin too young perhaps?) of griefing or wrecking the game for someone else, that's when you are not playing the game either. You are playing "their" game and win lose or draw, they have managed to make it their game.

While I don't think new players get "griefed" out of the game as easily as some people think - new players have an excuse to lose and a lot less to lose - I do think that a lot of them hit a point where they feel like they are working a customer support desk or are reminded of someone they work with who "has nothing better to do but ruin things for everybody else" and so they don't sub or unsub and move on. Even if you can best someone like that, it's still draining (and still "their game") just to put up with them. I have noticed that women are more prone to arrive at these conclusions than men. This might be related to women having more likely ended up in jobs or being tasked as actual babysitters for brat kids, and so they can spot such behavior easily and are not inclined to actually pay money to put up with yet more brat kids.

One of the reasons to get new players OUT of highsec as soon as possible is to get they away from this lowest common denominator zone. While it's fun to poke at the large alliances they do have some recruitment considerations for new players and should be recognized for that. What I have observed otherwise is that people who linger in highsec too long will get tired of the BS and playing someone else's greif game but those who actually get with the adults will invest more time and energy in staying.

So, either the player base should ramp up helping noobs out of highsec (instead of ganking them as if a KB full of T1 and rookie ships and month-old pods mean something - they don't) or CCP should strongly consider an inner starter zone of which only noobs can inhabit and anyone older can only fly non-combatant vessels (so there can be a market) - or something like that. Perhaps even some mechanics whereby player ships cannot fire on each other. Before anybody goes alphatard on that idea, be advised that I'm referring to a total noob starter zone to keep them grief free so they actually play internet spaceships and not "I'm getting back at the world because I can't get laid Online". Another consideration could be for corporations operating outside of highsec to get bonuses of some kind for recruiting new players, perhaps rewards of higher factions standings of the original faction that the new player is coming from. Anything to incentivize this would be great.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#239 - 2013-11-05 23:18:57 UTC
I love this thread.

EVE has areas of almost complete safety. They are called stations, and while in them you are only exposed to market PVP.

As soon as you choose to leave a station, you are sacrificing that safety for the chance to make more ISK.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#240 - 2013-11-05 23:35:41 UTC
The point of the gank... isn't the gank.

The point of the bump.... isn't the bump.

The point of the Code... is player-control where many say there is none.

After over a year as an Agent of the New Order I know how the carebears react to the presence of the New Order. I won't speak for the freighter gankers but this is how the miners react.

Agent: Buy a permit. www.minerbumping.com

Miner 1: Random abuse, Caldari (Amarr, etc) is in charge here, you can't make me...

Agent: Bump.

Miner 1: Oh big man, I will just... (insert Miner Bingo square option here).

Knight: GANK!

Miner 1: Defenseless! Unfair! CCP FIX! NERF NERF NERF!

Agent: Buy a permit.

Miner 2: Random abuse, etc etc.



No one complains when the Goons control a giant swath of null. No one thinks its wrong when one huge alliance sweeps another out of their sov. BUT, have the New Order claim all systems with sec status between .5 and 1.0 and the petitions fly, the forum fills with threads like this and 2003 veterans like the OP reveal that some players never get beyond the carebear mentality.

The problem isn't the ganking. The problem is we say what they can and cannot do, and then we prove it. The OP, like so many before him/her has realized that even all his skill points, all his years of playing Eve and all his time playing the "real game" in Null doesn't protect him from someone who actually knows how to play Eve.

The feeling of powerlessness is what causes threads like this. We can't be stopped.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com