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[CSM8] CSM8 Town Hall #3: November 16 1900 EVE time

First post
Author
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2013-11-12 22:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Ali Aras wrote:
I'll also pick up advance questions out of this thread-- the purpose of asking for questions in advance is so we can screen for questions where we can give you actual quality answers. Sometimes people ask things where the best answer is "try F&I forum, tia"; you don't need to spend five minutes listening to each of us say that at least once.


Just a tip as a followup to this: If your question can be distilled down to "Please tell us CCP's long term design plans with respect to (insert topic)", you're not going to get an answer to it.

Incidentally, just about the only question in this thread that doesn't match that criteria is Frying Doom's, and that one's just a whine question anyway.


I'm struggling to find questions that don't imply what you say and yet are worth asking.

You're just a bunch of players and the only thing special with you is the information you have on CCP. If that is out of question, then what's the purpose of asking you anything?


Appropriate questions would be along the lines of "What do you think about (idea)" or "How would you suggest that CCP fix (broken thing)" and things like that. Our own ideas and opinions are something that we can share - information about CCPs business practices and future plans and so forth aren't.

For example, you could rephrase your first question as "How do you think CCP could improve this game's PvE" or "Do you like the ghost sites and would you like to see more content like them and why?" The second question... well, that'd be harder, really.

The key is that we can share what we think. We cannot share what CCP thinks. If that means you think they're questions that "are not worth asking" then, well, sorry to hear that - I'd assure you otherwise, but I suspect if you do believe that, it wouldn't mean much to you.

Frying Doom wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Even if we accept that it is a valid question and not a whine, it still falls under that sort of "Please tell us about CCP's high level business decisions and practices" thing that wouldn't get an answer, that you should know better than to think we'd be allowed to answer.

So answer it as a player and not as a CCP stooge.

We have the smallest expansion ever and CCP has increased its development budget by 50%. Isn't that something the CSM should be complaining about publicly and privately?


As a player my answer is "I don't really feel like giving answers to someone who insults me at every turn and thinks I'm a joke."

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Frying Doom
#22 - 2013-11-12 22:43:19 UTC
Or in another words

'I am not going to say anything against my CCP masters'

Got ya, so was the trip to Iceland really worth your soul?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-11-12 22:48:12 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
It was a serious question as I cannot remember an expansion with so little in it.

Quantum Rise.

(to be fair there were a lot of backend improvements in the months leading up to it that CCP wants to count as part of the expansion)

.

mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2013-11-12 22:51:59 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Or in another words

'I am not going to say anything against my CCP masters'

Got ya, so was the trip to Iceland really worth your soul?


I'm so glad I have a reliable member of the community to decide what I think. Saves me the effort of doing it myself. Roll

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Noriko Mai
#25 - 2013-11-12 22:59:32 UTC
So, this thread is now about a stupid question that isn't a question, that evolved in a discussion about questions and CSM egos with a slight undertone of passiv agression in the subtext? Well.. I've never seen so many CSM replys in one thread.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2013-11-12 23:44:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

I call it please explain how CCP has a 50% increase in its development budget and we get the smallest expansion ever.

Good to see real concerns are classed by the CSM as a whine.


It's not a "real concern"; it's a 'fact' you invented.

Maybe you should read up on things before you speak. Now I am not saying the CSM is not a joke but you really help drive home the point that it is.


Substantiate your assertion.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Frying Doom
#27 - 2013-11-13 01:02:56 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
It was a serious question as I cannot remember an expansion with so little in it.

Quantum Rise.

(to be fair there were a lot of backend improvements in the months leading up to it that CCP wants to count as part of the expansion)

Features:
Stackless IO

Vastly outperforming previous network technology, Stackless IO brings reduced latency and faster response to EVE Online. With Stackless IO, the groundwork has been laid for pushing the limits of today's server technology to new heights.

EVE64

We've migrated our key servers to 64-bit software, allowing the scale of player battles to surpass the previous limit of a few hundred on each side and improving performance in extremely high traffic regions of space.

Alchemy

Opportunities arise in the Tech 2 device market as newly discovered reaction methods yield alternatives to the rare and coveted minerals needed to build high end equipment.

Industrial Ships Get Love

The Orca has arrived, putting a new industrial capital ship in play. Several changes have been made to existing industrial ships to improve balance and tweak optimization.

User Interface Changes

Weapon Grouping automates the simultaneous firing of all weapons at once. Substitute that pew-pew with a massive body blow. Module Recharge Timers allow players to gauge how long before the next activation. Movable HUD gives players even more control over their UI layout.

Speed Rebalanced

Adjustments were made across the board to allow for significant and meaningful difference in speed between the ship classes. More viable ships in battle means more strategy and tactics in combat.

Ammunition Cost Change

50% more bombs per production run with no change to quantity of materials needed to produce. More affordable ammo means more choices in how you want to blow things up, and that's always a good thing.

Certificates

Earn official recognition for accomplishing certain levels of skill training in all areas from trading to combat. Certificates are a powerful tool to reinforce your bragging rights and bargaining power.

Medals

Offer customized rewards to those deserving of extra recognition. Rare medals from influential people offer a level of prestige that one simply can't buy.

New RealX Tracks

RealX returns with ten soothing new songs added to the in game jukebox. Enjoy relaxing tunes while crushing your adversaries and building your galactic empire.

New Stargates

Stargates get a facelift as our artists continue to travel the universe looking for various ways to make EVE's eye candy just that much better.

Improved Travel

Autopilot navigation now has a new Avoidance system, allowing pilots to flag certain systems as "no fly zones" when plotting their courses. New travel routes have also been added in high traffic regions.

Assembly Array Upgrades

New changes and improvements to assembly arrays have been introduced, including an expansion of the range available. Manufacturers of battleships, freighters and industrial command ships get a new tool for their trade.

ETC Secure Trading Evolved

A completely new in-game system that allows you to trade 30 day game time tokens for ISK, the in-game currency, with other players via the EVE market. CCP's revolutionary approach to enabling anyone to play EVE for a bit of elbow grease!

Not a great one but still better than the patch we are getting.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#28 - 2013-11-13 01:05:28 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Or in another words

'I am not going to say anything against my CCP masters'

Got ya, so was the trip to Iceland really worth your soul?


I'm so glad I have a reliable member of the community to decide what I think. Saves me the effort of doing it myself. Roll

I thought you gave up the ability to think for yourself when you joined the CSM. After all cant have a CCP PR arm thinking for its selfLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-11-13 04:35:11 UTC
Back to questions, please, only a few days left until the meeting and it would be nice to see the forums represented.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-11-13 07:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Deka Ekato
Dear CSM,

- What IS the CSM position on the Somer issue?, ( besides the so called survey )

- Why has the CSM been as silent as CCP concerning this issue?

- Do you even consider Somer to be an issue?

- Are you going to do anything about the Somer issue?

- Who DO you actually represent, the Eve community, CCP, or are you in it for your own interests?

Thanks.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#31 - 2013-11-13 08:01:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Mike Azariah wrote:
Back to questions, please, only a few days left until the meeting and it would be nice to see the forums represented.

m


I just came up with a question: what does the CSM think of CCP's habit of iterating features without asking the people actually/currently using them, so they end up serving somebody else's interests? Case in point: hisec PI vs POCOs

Certainly I can't think of any hiseccer who's peeing his pants over POCOs and the consensus it's that they're a piece of alien interest being shoved down hisec's throat.

That is, if you want PI, what does PvP over CO's serve you? Nothing, but is a setback detrimental to your way of playing and your interest. It may serve someone else, but not the people who, well, actually use the mechanic (with its flaws and drawbacks).

So, how does the CSM feel about how CCP iterates features without asking the players using them? Why rather than improve or expand the existing content, we get exploration for non-explorers, PI for non-PI'ers, "solo" space yurts for PvP ready corporations and so?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#32 - 2013-11-13 16:53:35 UTC
mynnna wrote:

As a player my answer is "I don't really feel like giving answers to someone who insults me at every turn and thinks I'm a joke."


Sorry to burst your bubble, but you an elected representative of the people who play Eve, not a player in this case.
It does not matter if they hurt your poor feelings.
Answer the damn questions, all questions.
Do your job. Don't just grab the lobbed softball ones.

Unless of course, the CSM is just a lobby group for special interest groups, after all.
Then I understand your logic.

And btw, no one considers you a joke.
You are far too dangerous for the future health of Eve and CCP to ever be considered a joke.
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-11-13 17:06:16 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
mynnna wrote:

As a player my answer is "I don't really feel like giving answers to someone who insults me at every turn and thinks I'm a joke."


Sorry to burst your bubble, but you an elected representative of the people who play Eve, not a player in this case.
It does not matter if they hurt your poor feelings.
Answer the damn questions, all questions.
Do your job. Don't just grab the lobbed softball ones.

Unless of course, the CSM is just a lobby group for special interest groups, after all.
Then I understand your logic.

And btw, no one considers you a joke.
You are far too dangerous for the future health of Eve and CCP to ever be considered a joke.


You're right, of course. I apologize. To answer Frying Doom's question, the reason for what he perceives as a lack of features in this expansion is that CCP put just enough work into it to justify it, while most of the staff is busy implementing the complete handover of everything in highsec to the nullsec cabal in Summer 2014.


Roll

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Endovior
PFU Consortium
#34 - 2013-11-13 18:43:57 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I only have one question atm

Is Rubicon the patch with the least features we have ever gotten in EvE? Personally I cannot remember one with so little in it.


This is a terrible question. Reading between the lines, it seems quite clear (to me, at least) that there's a lot of work being done behind the scenes, in terms of foundation-level work that'll actually let the important features that everyone wants get implemented eventually. Unfortunately, that kind of thing is naturally going to be time-intensive (old game, legacy code, need to rebuild foundational systems plus everything that relies upon them, etc...), and so CCP naturally doesn't want to tip their hand before they're ready. The CSM might possibly be an exception, but if they are, they can't discuss it, because of NDAs. As such, pressuring them about things they can't discuss isn't a useful thing to do... after all, even if they were able to reveal everything they know about CCP's super-secret plans for the expansions after Rubicon, they don't necessarily know when those plans will be coming to fruition, nor how successfully they'll be implemented yet.

I'd ask a more answerable question like: "Overall, how optimistic (or pessimistic) are you about the continuing development of EVE?"

That's not uselessly asking anything about things they legally can't answer, nor demanding speculation about the specifics of CCP's business practices. I just want opinions, from people who are in a position to have especially informed opinions, without the need to reveal any of the specifics that inform those opinions.
Ripard Teg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-11-13 19:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ripard Teg
GAH. Forum software ate my post. Give me a few minutes to rebuild it.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#36 - 2013-11-13 20:13:20 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
mynnna wrote:

As a player my answer is "I don't really feel like giving answers to someone who insults me at every turn and thinks I'm a joke."


Sorry to burst your bubble, but you an elected representative of the people who play Eve, not a player in this case.
It does not matter if they hurt your poor feelings.
Answer the damn questions, all questions.
Do your job. Don't just grab the lobbed softball ones.

Unless of course, the CSM is just a lobby group for special interest groups, after all.
Then I understand your logic.

And btw, no one considers you a joke.
You are far too dangerous for the future health of Eve and CCP to ever be considered a joke.


You're right, of course. I apologize. To answer Frying Doom's question, the reason for what he perceives as a lack of features in this expansion is that CCP put just enough work into it to justify it, while most of the staff is busy implementing the complete handover of everything in highsec to the nullsec cabal in Summer 2014.


Roll



Once again, troll away.
You are good at it. You have lots of practice.
BTW, looks good on the CSM to have you acting as a child on the forums.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#37 - 2013-11-13 20:15:03 UTC
Hi CSM members O/

I have an advance question for consideration:

Do CSM members (and CCP for that matter) consider the rise of PvE rental empires in sov null be beneficial to the level of PVP in sov null and do they see Rubicon having a measurable impact upon the level of PVP in null sec?

The background to this question can be found here. My concern (note, not conclusion) is that the rental empire owners appear to be strangling null sec PVP through a process of extensive blue lists or detente, purely to bank ISK.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#38 - 2013-11-13 20:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
The first requirement for PvP in 0.0 is that there are people in space, undocked and doing stuff in it.

When the space money all came from moongoo, the player "empires" were just as ready to blue or NIP.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#39 - 2013-11-13 20:28:19 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
mynnna wrote:

As a player my answer is "I don't really feel like giving answers to someone who insults me at every turn and thinks I'm a joke."


Sorry to burst your bubble, but you an elected representative of the people who play Eve, not a player in this case.
It does not matter if they hurt your poor feelings.
Answer the damn questions, all questions.
Do your job. Don't just grab the lobbed softball ones.

Unless of course, the CSM is just a lobby group for special interest groups, after all.
Then I understand your logic.

And btw, no one considers you a joke.
You are far too dangerous for the future health of Eve and CCP to ever be considered a joke.



How can they answer the question when the question is based on a false assumption? Between the warp-speed changes, interceptor changes, interdictor changes, new SOE ships, new ghost sites, new Marauder functionality....


Wait, what am I forgetting...Oh yeah! Deployables that have the ability to COMPLETELY RESHAPE PVP. Such as

-refitting on the fly
-changing t3 mods in space
-denying non-covops hotdrops
-stealing moongoo income from AFK POS owners
-tractor ALL the loot


AND I DIDN'T EVEN GET TO THE NEW HISEC POCO CHANGES UNTIL ABOUT THREE WORDS AGO!

That's why that answer didn't dignify a response.

Now then, actual concerns:

-SOMER. Given that some CSM members actually supported SOMER's ISK-to-cash business, people will want to hear from the CSM that yes, what SOMER did was bad. Would also be nice to hear how the CSM proposes to keep entities from offering ingame rewards for actions that grant them out-of-game cash in the future.

-Stepping in the sandbox. Recently, someone was scammed out of an impressive 17m skillpoints by allowing themselves to be podded over and over. It was then confirmed via API that CCP restored these skill points. The player that lost the sp claimed that it was his brother using his account, but we obviously cannot know what he told CCP. That being said some assurance that CCP will not reverse the consequences of scams would be nice.

-RLMLs. Overall I like the changes, but please please push on CCP to allow for fast switching of ammo. Damage flexibility is one thing that missiles have over the competition (despite CCP Rise's best effort to make everyone use kinetic P), wouldn't want to lose that.

-One consequence of the 48 hour reinforcement timer for the space yurt in wormholes is that you'll never get a shiny drop from a dread pilot again. Once he hits structure, all he has to do is drop yurt, put mods in, then access the yurt at any point within the next 48 hours. And unless someone hellcamps the yurt for that period of time, it's pretty trivial for him to grab it. Not sure how'd you'd fix that wormhole-specific issue, or perhaps it's just "working as intended."

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#40 - 2013-11-13 20:32:50 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:

- Who DO you actually represent, the Eve community, CCP, or are you in it for your own interests?


If I wanted to advance my interests in EVE, it would have been considerably more efficient to have worked overtime or simply got a paid second job, and used the money to buy GTCs so I could sell PLEX. I'm definitely not the CSM member who has put the most hours into it this year and even I could easily have got myself a couple of titans that way with the time I put in.

My interest is making the game better because EVE is my main hobby, and for all its faults I enjoy it and want to continue to do so. In that sense I am "in it for my own interests".

NB: Taken as a whole, the CSM would probably be quite a considerable supercap power by now if we all did the above... :mrBurns:

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016