These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Invention - Fix it!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#21 - 2013-11-07 22:29:45 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
There are ideas being bounced around with redesigning the UI.

One idea is setting up production lines, that keep processing, as long as you have materials. drag and drop to fill bits in.

Going to be interesting to see where it goes.

I was actually considering posting earlier that the reason we don't already have it is because of the people that didn't vote for Steve Ronuken. Big smile


My votes went to Steve Ronuken this year. There is so much apathy and lack of organisation within the low & high sec communities that the null-sec, and to a lesser extent the wormhole dwellers, hold sway within the CSM. As a direct result bad decisions have and continue to be made which have wrecked the game and the economy.

"Remember remember the fifth of November. Gunpowder, treason, & plot." Evil

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#22 - 2013-11-07 22:46:00 UTC
BornToDieAnotherDay wrote:
Not saying I agree, but one point you should consider in a feature that makes invention (or PI/Manufacturing etc) less click intensive is the drastic increase in competition.

I go on and off inventing solely because of the number of clicks it takes (as pointed out), and I doubt I'm the only one. However, if it suddenly became 2 clicks to start an entire run of invention jobs, every man and his alt that quit due to the clickfest would be straight back in the market (at least I know I would).

Not saying it's a bad idea to implement, but if they did it would result in (in my opinion) the margins in invention and manufacturing decreasing significantly.


I agree a change of this sort would probably fall under the category of dumbing down of the game. More importantly it would indeed result in a drop in prices and profit ratios as more people jumped on the bandwagon. There are quite a lot of skills needed though so it wouldn't happen straight away. But it would happen.

A number of markets and prices have collapsed recently such as exploration loot, minerals, and mindlinks to name just three. It would not be wise to see this happen across the board.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#23 - 2013-11-07 23:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
BornToDieAnotherDay wrote:
Not saying I agree, but one point you should consider in a feature that makes invention (or PI/Manufacturing etc) less click intensive is the drastic increase in competition.

I go on and off inventing solely because of the number of clicks it takes (as pointed out), and I doubt I'm the only one. However, if it suddenly became 2 clicks to start an entire run of invention jobs, every man and his alt that quit due to the clickfest would be straight back in the market (at least I know I would).

Not saying it's a bad idea to implement, but if they did it would result in (in my opinion) the margins in invention and manufacturing decreasing significantly.


I agree a change of this sort would probably fall under the category of dumbing down of the game. More importantly it would indeed result in a drop in prices and profit ratios as more people jumped on the bandwagon.


This is 100% wrong, and this notion stands directly in the way of improving gameplay.

Competition is not a bad thing. Even if it means profit margins go down. When you do invention jobs, you're typically doing many identical jobs. It should be no different than putting in a giant, high-run t1 job. How would you feel if ammo required the manufacturer to resubmit the job every 50,000 rounds? Margins would be higher, because the experience would be ****** and un-fun. Streamlining the job submission process takes NONE of the complexity out of invention. Decryptor costs, moongoo for components, t1 manufacturing and copying, meta module costs, all of that still exists. All of that still needs to be accounted for to turn a profit. It doesn't dumb down the game, it makes it smarter, because you spend more time figuring out whats profitable and optimizing your supply chain, and less time trecking back to your pos at strange hours to submit new invention jobs.

Do you want to be paid to click repeatedly, or do you want to be paid to think?

If profit margins go down because the gameplay is less terrible, then nothing of value will have been lost. T2 manufacturing should resemble a more complex version of t1 manufacturing. Right now it doesn't.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-11-08 02:29:58 UTC
Galadriel Vasquez wrote:
Please fix the clickfest. I mean really I think its around 12 clicks per run - and if you start using decryptors and meta items then its more.

And some of them are so redundant - like the selecting an Invention Line - its already in the building isn't it! Some of them are totally stupid.

Surely it is quite a simple fix to implement.

Many Thanks


P.S - Necroing an old subject - win...


Right click BPC > click invention
Tab Tab Tab Tab, Up and down keys to select lab, double click on slot.
Tab, Enter Enter.

3 clicks.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-11-08 02:39:54 UTC
Batelle wrote:

This is 100% wrong, and this notion stands directly in the way of improving gameplay.

Competition is not a bad thing. Even if it means profit margins go down. When you do invention jobs, you're typically doing many identical jobs. It should be no different than putting in a giant, high-run t1 job. How would you feel if ammo required the manufacturer to resubmit the job every 50,000 rounds? Margins would be higher, because the experience would be ****** and un-fun. Streamlining the job submission process takes NONE of the complexity out of invention. Decryptor costs, moongoo for components, t1 manufacturing and copying, meta module costs, all of that still exists. All of that still needs to be accounted for to turn a profit. It doesn't dumb down the game, it makes it smarter, because you spend more time figuring out whats profitable and optimizing your supply chain, and less time trecking back to your pos at strange hours to submit new invention jobs.

Do you want to be paid to click repeatedly, or do you want to be paid to think?

If profit margins go down because the gameplay is less terrible, then nothing of value will have been lost. T2 manufacturing should resemble a more complex version of t1 manufacturing. Right now it doesn't.


You're very wrong. Margins wouldn't be lower, they would be unprofitable and T2 manufacturing would work the same was T1 manufacturing is now; based on the prices of materials going up then what you paid for them being the bulk of the profit you make (see basically every T1 ship as an example).

Perfect example is drones. They take 1 hour to invent, and lets say you have 10 lab slots. Average player will on average maybe do 2 or maybe 3 runs per day. At 30 attempts per day thats about 12 10 run BPC's per day. So if we say 100 players are making the same T2 drone we have an average of 120 BPC's per day (1,200 drone runs). Now lets look at if invention queuing and multi BPC manufacutring queuing existing. You now have 24 (hours) of invention attempts per day. Thats 240 BPC's with an average of 96 successful 10 run BPC's. From 100 players that is a total 960 10 run BPCs or a total of 9,600 drones made per day verses the current system, or roughly 800% increase in supply. Yes this would end well for all T2 manufacturers wouldn't it?
BornToDieAnotherDay
Tarazed Technology
#26 - 2013-11-08 04:25:06 UTC
Batelle wrote:

...

This is 100% wrong, and this notion stands directly in the way of improving gameplay.

Competition is not a bad thing. Even if it means profit margins go down. When you do invention jobs, you're typically doing many identical jobs. It should be no different than putting in a giant, high-run t1 job. How would you feel if ammo required the manufacturer to resubmit the job every 50,000 rounds? Margins would be higher, because the experience would be ****** and un-fun. Streamlining the job submission process takes NONE of the complexity out of invention. Decryptor costs, moongoo for components, t1 manufacturing and copying, meta module costs, all of that still exists. All of that still needs to be accounted for to turn a profit. It doesn't dumb down the game, it makes it smarter, because you spend more time figuring out whats profitable and optimizing your supply chain, and less time trecking back to your pos at strange hours to submit new invention jobs.

Do you want to be paid to click repeatedly, or do you want to be paid to think?

If profit margins go down because the gameplay is less terrible, then nothing of value will have been lost. T2 manufacturing should resemble a more complex version of t1 manufacturing. Right now it doesn't.


Aside from contradicting yourself in your final statement, have you considered the actual profitability of those T1 jobs? As you say it's so incredibly easy to set up a large run and just leave it, and that directly corresponds to the low, crappy margins on ammo. Reducing the click fest will do the same to T2, and whilst the 'complexity'/skill requirements will keep the margin slightly higher, it will still crash the T2 market as you know it.

You mention being paid to think, however once you understand Invention and setup your lines correctly once, the thinking goes out of it. I'm not inventing currently but if I change my mind it would take me 2 minutes to get back into it and verify the margins are still there (and they will be, they almost always are on T2 invention).

You shouldn't view invention as your ticket to afk income - rather as something to actively put your time in to to generate the higher margins. If any sort of large scale automation was introduced, the margins on everything would spiral down to just above T1 levels, and it would be no different. People have the characters/money that the number of invention jobs being run would sky rocket. If the margins on ammo and T1 modules excite you then I guess you wouldn't have a problem with it.
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#27 - 2013-11-08 10:01:58 UTC
Scripts for invention/production/copy jobs and so on would be a great UI improvement and welcome.

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#28 - 2013-11-10 02:13:53 UTC
CCP karkur, who does the UI updates from time to time said, in a reply to my asking about it, that fixing the UI is a 20% time project. So expecting anything out of that is going to be minor.

Maybe a major push will happen for industry changes. I dunno, if CSM has been pushing or not.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Previous page12