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Kronos or Paladin?
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Owen Deteis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-11-04 01:42:15 UTC
Hello all,
I'm setting up a long term skill plan into marauders. I'm currently a couple months out from being able to fly a blaster Kronos or a pulse Paladin. The pulse Paladin seems to be a lot more versatile, but the blaster Kronos seems fun and has a lot of future pvp potential if I decide to go that route one day. Mostly I want to use them as a L4 mission boat when I can get back to playing consistently. Do any of you have any compelling arguments towards one or the other? Thanks a lot.
Sha'Do Khan
Pirate Nomads
#2 - 2013-11-04 02:08:00 UTC
Be realistic, you probably won't be PVPing in a Marauder regardless of the bastion module. Some might, but most won't. There are more capable pirate ships to fill that role.

As for Lvl4 missions, honestly, go with the ship you like the most. Both do comparably well and pretty much the same in the real world. Both are great mission boats. Don't worry about which ship gets the absolute maximum damage or best tank. Adapt to the strengths of your ship and have fun.

My opinion for weapons though is go with Beams or Hybrids. There are plenty of missions where you'll appreciate the range they offer.

My opinion may change after the bastion module is released. Either way, I'd say as long as you are getting great damage out to at least 50K, then any weapon system will work.

Welcome to EVE - EVE is not a game - Adapt or die.
Owen Deteis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-11-04 02:27:03 UTC
Yeah you are right about the pvp thing.

As far as the choice between the two ships goes, I have been checking, reading about and making fits for them since rubicon has started to balance out their marauder plans. I am more curious about how I get a lot more range options with the paladin vs the Kronos. With scorch, conflagration and Multi being hugely versatile in range, is it worth it to go with the Kronos for a more versatile but shorter ranged damage type vs just Em/therm?

The rail vs tach argument seems a little less varied, but still has enough to be a consideration.
Sha'Do Khan
Pirate Nomads
#4 - 2013-11-04 02:43:02 UTC
Remember with Em/Therm energy weapons, you get more raw damage at mid ranges. And in Lvl4s you'll be fighting at mid ranges against most ships except Angels.

So what is YOUR fighting style? If you want to get in there and brawl it out, go with the Kronos with MWD and blasters. You can do that with Paladin too, but Kronos does it better. If you want to snipe the missions, either will do, with a slight nod to ward the Paladin.

Both ships are awesome.

If you can't decide, then another consideration is which region of empire space do you plan to mission in?
Paladin is best for Amarr, Kronos is best for Gallente.

Welcome to EVE - EVE is not a game - Adapt or die.
Owen Deteis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-11-04 02:54:10 UTC
I think I've been leaning towards the paladin the whole time. I've just always been partial to the megathron hull and gallente in general. So what I think I needed was for someone to come along and confirm what I've been leaning towards with the paladin. So can I get a few amarr fans to come and tell me just how awesome the paladin is and will be after rubicon and reassure me that I won't be angry at myself for the two months of training I'm choosing at this fork? Thanks a lot in advance.
Sha'Do Khan
Pirate Nomads
#6 - 2013-11-04 04:00:30 UTC
I fly a Paladin on my main mission alt and I have never been disappointed. And from what I've read, the Paladin really makes out the most with the Rubicon changes.

A secondary alt flies a Kronos, but now I prefer a Sin for lo-sec stuff.

With any ship, even a Marauder, you really need to be very skilled to do them well. Else you need to really watch your aggro and know all the triggers. But even as I say that, with the Rubicon changes, it will be MUCH easier to run missions now.

I've tried all the Amarr BSs for Lvl4s, all Navy alternates, and the Nightmare. I still go back to my Paladin. And again for me looks matter. I fly Amarr because I really like the symmetrical ship designs and lasers are just fun to shoot.

The Kronos may well be the best looking ship in the game because it reminds me most of StarBlazer styled ships, which I was huge fan.

I'm sure you'll get other fans to chime in, for both ships, and everyone will be right as to why their ship is the best choice...;-)

Welcome to EVE - EVE is not a game - Adapt or die.
Sha'Do Khan
Pirate Nomads
#7 - 2013-11-04 04:02:16 UTC
What race do you fly now? Maybe a consideration you should make is what pirate faction you want to fly someday. That may end up influencing your choice?

Welcome to EVE - EVE is not a game - Adapt or die.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#8 - 2013-11-04 05:03:17 UTC
You do need to think about in which space you will mostly run missions too (i.e. what rat types you will be facing). I haven't flown Paladin, but I have Nightmare that I've been using for long time (in addition to other ships). When you are up against Serpentis for example, either Paladin (Nightmare) or Kronos will do the job fine. But if you are against Gurista/Angel, then Kronos definitely has the edge over Paladin due to the damage profile. As much as I love laser boats and the Nightmare, I ended up training my Nightmare pilot for CNR so I can use CNR for Angels (for Serpentis I still use Nightmare on that character). It wasn't too painful for cross-training because I already had Caldari Battleship V for the max damage on Nightmare though.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#9 - 2013-11-04 05:16:20 UTC
[Rubicon Paladin, Mission]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty Slot]
[Empty Slot] Fit to taste
[Empty Slot]
Bastion Module I

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5

With Conflag this does 1228 dps at 32+19 km, while Scorch reaches out to 95+19 km with 877 dps. Both figures without drone dps. With Bastion the medium armor repper should be enough with about 450 dps tank, and you have both MJD and MWD so you don't have to triangulate your jumps as much.

In comparison a Kronos with the same type of fit you can fit a large repper, get more dps with close range ammo ( 1504 dps at 10+15 km), but because it's blasters the range is rather low even with bastion active, so enemies might fly out of effective range. With Null for range you get 1074 dps at 19+41 km. If you use rails your dps drops quite a bit, with under 1k dps with Javelin at 28+70 km.

Of course you might not use T2 ammo all the time, but at least the dps/range difference is around the same. Both are stuck with fixed damage types so if you want to squeeze the last bit of damage out consider where you run missions and against what.

You might not even want to use the MJD bonus it has and go with afterburner or microwarpdrive alone for propulsion, but your damage figures wouldn't really change because of stacking penalties anyways. Just don't try to pimp the ship too much, as even with Bastion you're still a viable gank target when you become a shiny enough loot pinata.
Owen Deteis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-11-04 08:01:19 UTC
Thanks for all the feedback. I've been running level 4s in caldari space and I don't mind moving to another area.

That Paladin fit is what I've been seeing from the people on sisi and I really like it. The fact that you are a reload away from a 63km difference, while still retaining respectable damage is impressive to me. The paladin seems to have gotten the best shake in the rubicon update and I'm looking forward to being able to fly it.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-11-04 08:33:19 UTC
All depends on what that Paladin looks like....

No Worries
Sha'Do Khan
Pirate Nomads
#12 - 2013-11-04 08:47:57 UTC
So if by missioning in Caldari you mean you fly Caldari...

Go Amarr to also fly a Nightmare
Go Gallente to also fly a Rattlesnake

Welcome to EVE - EVE is not a game - Adapt or die.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#13 - 2013-11-04 14:29:07 UTC
kronos looks like it'll benefit most from the bastion module IMO.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Poppy Solarchaser
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-11-04 18:31:26 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
[Rubicon Paladin, Mission]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty Slot]
[Empty Slot] Fit to taste
[Empty Slot]
Bastion Module I

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5

With Conflag this does 1228 dps at 32+19 km, while Scorch reaches out to 95+19 km with 877 dps. Both figures without drone dps. With Bastion the medium armor repper should be enough with about 450 dps tank, and you have both MJD and MWD so you don't have to triangulate your jumps as much.

In comparison a Kronos with the same type of fit you can fit a large repper, get more dps with close range ammo ( 1504 dps at 10+15 km), but because it's blasters the range is rather low even with bastion active, so enemies might fly out of effective range. With Null for range you get 1074 dps at 19+41 km. If you use rails your dps drops quite a bit, with under 1k dps with Javelin at 28+70 km.

Of course you might not use T2 ammo all the time, but at least the dps/range difference is around the same. Both are stuck with fixed damage types so if you want to squeeze the last bit of damage out consider where you run missions and against what.

You might not even want to use the MJD bonus it has and go with afterburner or microwarpdrive alone for propulsion, but your damage figures wouldn't really change because of stacking penalties anyways. Just don't try to pimp the ship too much, as even with Bastion you're still a viable gank target when you become a shiny enough loot pinata.


What's up with the medium armour repair?
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#15 - 2013-11-04 18:49:52 UTC
Poppy Solarchaser wrote:
What's up with the medium armour repair?

Fittings. Try fitting it up yourself like that, a large won't fit at all.
Poppy Solarchaser
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-11-04 19:07:21 UTC
I'm still a noobie, can't fly a Pally yet, hope to one day. Is the ship stable with your fit?
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#17 - 2013-11-04 19:25:07 UTC
Poppy Solarchaser wrote:
I'm still a noobie, can't fly a Pally yet, hope to one day. Is the ship stable with your fit?

No, with only the repper, guns and bastion it is 13m 35s which is plenty. You will have downtime in between targets with the lasers so it will feel almost as if it was stable. I might try using the Reactive Armor Hardener on it, cuts the cap time down to 8m 21s, but it will let me turn of the repper more.

Cap stability is wholly overrated. It generally means you could've had more damage, range, or both. A few fits benefits from it but it is rarely required, especially for missions. My current mission ship has 1m 28s of cap but I never have to run my booster much at all. Never really had to warp out either.
stoicfaux
#18 - 2013-11-04 19:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Kosetzu wrote:
Poppy Solarchaser wrote:
What's up with the medium armour repair?

Fittings. Try fitting it up yourself like that, a large won't fit at all.

Fittings? Naw. In bastion mode, the MARII provides 400+ tank while being effectively cap-stable with two EANMIIs providing 73% to 79% omni-resists. It's more of a convenience thing.

You can fit NPC specific hardeners or faction/deadspace reppers if you're concerned about tank.

Plus, using a MARII to tank a Paladin shows just how ridiculous bastion mode is for level 4s. (For the shield tankers, I recommend a Pithum C-Type MSB.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sha'Do Khan
Pirate Nomads
#19 - 2013-11-04 22:34:38 UTC
I'm in favor of cap stability. Yes it's possible to run missions without being cap stable but bringing along a cap booster means you are cap stable as needed.

And when you are new to Lvl4s you are certainly going to need cap stability.

Taking advice from mission runners who have higher skills, assuming you'll dps and tank like they do, will get you killed.

Welcome to EVE - EVE is not a game - Adapt or die.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#20 - 2013-11-04 22:43:59 UTC
That just means you don't prioritize the skills you want for the ship you fly. I did lvl 4 missions within a month without much issue, only having the very occasional warp-out which was mainly from shooting triggers by accident. Only difference from then and now is I don't always care about triggers anymore as I can tank and kill them off quick enough.
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