Intergalactic Summit

Greetings

While I don't agree that slavery will cease to exist - and that also means: in it's current form - any time soon within the Empire, I agree that it's quite easy to join the 24th for reasons other than enslavement of the republican Matari. The quote Cpt. Sadik gave makes no difference there:

The stated Crusade recruitment text doesn't at all speak of enslavement. instead it speaks of 'reclaiming' which is a concept in Amarrian culture indeed connected to enslavement, but it isn't even remotely covered by the latter. The equation that Cpt. Sadik is introducing here in a backhanded manner, that reclaiming is nothing but enslavement, is a thus false one either speaking of his inability to comprehend Amarrian culture or of his dedication to use whatever dirty polemics necessary to depreciate the efforts of individual pilots who dare to join the 24th Crusade - his opponents.

I'd like to point out, that the TLF recruitment text is much more crude: "Death to Amarr!" is it's final message. So, is everyone joining the TLF or supporting it by necessity against a peaceful solution to the tensions between the Republic and the Empire? If we'd want to believe Cpt. Sadik, that'd have to be the case. They'd all be hell-bent on genocide.

I doubt it, though.

N. Mithra

Oh, and I guess I should answer this, too:

"Oh so very typical of your kind to force your 'help' onto others who never asked for it nor wanted it, and then be confused when they push you away."

The "help" you insist on bringing to the galaxy is not wanted. But you simply can not accept that - you push your "help" onto others whether they want it or not, and when they kick you in the ass for it, you cry about how you only wanted to help. Grow up.

In the end, if your people would simply stop bothering other people, we would never have had such a horrible cluster in the first place. Your efforts will not improve the cluster, it will just make it worse and worse with every day. But you don't worry about that, because you "only wanted to help".

But that is not what you want. What you want is to prove to yourself and the whole galaxy that you are better than everyone else. I suspect that is to be expect by a people subject to a cultural inferiority complex. Luckily, there are more and more Amarr who have grown beyond that childishness.

It has ?

You Amarr, your Empire, your zombie witch Empress and your perverse religion can ascend to the heights of the firmament or fall to the depths of hell for all I care. Just quit meddling in our affairs. Quit attempting to force your crap on us, the Gallente and the Caldari. Release our people whom you're holding, not for any altruistic purposes but, because your entire economy would collapse without the foundation of cheap slave labor.

Outstretched hand of peace? Where? All I hear is you Amarrian bastards saying that we "inferiors" need to be "saved" for our own good whether we like it or not and that you intend to do so or, kill us all in the process. If that's what you call an outstretched hand you're damned right I'm hacking at it and I'll do so until I draw my final breath.

It's so deliciously ironic that the only people in the history of mankind to obliterate entire civilizations and planets are always the ones calling the rest of us savages. I'd get a good laugh out of it if I didn't know that you've gone quite mad and believe your own propaganda.

Personally I'm just waiting for the day when the Caldari open their eyes and see you people for what you really are. On that day the 3 other empires may just decide that you're as much a threat to humanity as Kuvakei and decide to do something about it.

Cease to exist, maybe not. However, recent developments (the ninth generation release, most prominently) turn me hopeful that a revival of the spiritual core of the reclaiming can shift the focus towards doctrinal education.

Slaves certainly will continue to resent their fate - it is a needed part. But I personally hope the point behind it will be razor sharp and clear as ice, not muddled as much by the slim economic advantages.

Now, before the calls of "monstrous megalomaniac" and "filthy savage" drown out all discourse: Over our long history, our crusades brought many scattered peoples into the fold - most recently the Ammatar. They prospered and are better for it. Even if you turn a blind eye to matters of faith, it is obvious we must be doing something right

However in the case that a person joins the military and the goverment that runs said military commits a crime resulting in war for the sake of his own nation I would hope that you see he is not required to retire from military service.

Nor would he legally be able to in any case.

One can seek to be part of the military to protect ones own nation without supporting the goals of his leadership in spirit. You may call that a cop out but you have to understand regardless of how he feels now that his nation is at war the way of life of those who want no part in the crime are just as much in danger.

not that I'm trying to saying anything about the Amarr or the Matari in that statement but I felt compelled to point out the flaw in your logic none the less.

I will say however your promise to me many months ago about terrorist activities to reclaim your people doesn't help your cause much. If I may step beside you a moment and pretend I'm a matarian child who has found the bombs in your locker room meant for a target explain to me honestly how you justify it.

The Empire is and most likely always will be an eye for an eye. A race for a throne heir or a city target for another.

So I ask you again maybe its time to set aside a small amount of pride and realize that hardening the hearts of the Lords you want dead but can never kill off to the words of the Empress may not be such a good idea.

I can only repeat myself:

You can be part of the 24th Imperial Crusade without wanting to enslave the free Minmatar.

But if you are part of the 24th Imperial Crusade, you accept that your actions support the conquest and enslaving of the free Minmatar.

You should pray that we Minmatar are better than that.

Could you please elaborate what you believe the following recruitment ad was intended to mean (and I mean, what the people who run the 24th IC mean with it, not what you would like it to mean)?

[To] reinstate the Empire of Amarr to its former and rightful glory. We need you to reclaim the Minmatar from the drudge, chaos and inhumanity in which they currently dwell, and into God's light. We are their angels. We must be their saviors.

By your power they shall be rescued from the dark. God wills it, and so it shall be.

Oh, perfectly fair.

My problem is that the Amarr outside of IGS use a rather clear vocabulary: From the Scriptures to the recruitment ad of the 24th IC, it's rather clear that the Amarr are about conquest of the galaxy and bringing their faith to others by force. I can also fully understand that Amarrians will fight for the 24th IC who do not, in general, wish for the captivity of the Minmatar people to continue, or for more Minmatar to be captured, but because they wish to defend their home and nation.

This is fully understandable, and a regrettable consequence of this war. Wars tend to polarize - it's difficult to stand aside when the stakes are so high. That is, those Amarr who wish to defend their Empire do so by putting the safety over their Empire above their distaste for slavery, spreading of faith by the sword, or conquest of other nations. I can fully understand that notion as well.

What bugs me is a certain kind of Amarr who exist solely on IGS and suffer from some serious forms of reality loss.

Elsewhere, you can find Amarr who wish to spread their faith by force, and they have the Scriptures to tell them how: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given. You can also find Amarr who disagree with this notion, and will work against it - some by turning to the enemies of the Empire, some by trying to change the Empire from within. Some of the latter are pushed more to the support of the Empire by this war (as mentioned, a regrettable consequence), and they will take up arms to defend the status quo even though they disagree with it.

But only on IGS will you find Amarr who will with a straight face claim that the Empire means peace when they say war, that they mean a peaceful mission when they say conquest, and that they mean a tea party when they say Reclaiming. These people either have completely lost connection to reality, or they are some of the worst propagandists I've ever seen.

You can not change the world by claiming that that which you disagree with does not exist.

Some of my esteemed collegues may be more liberal than me. I fully agree with many of the "charges" laid here. Yes, I wish to see the light of truth be spread to all corners of the cluster. If that is best accomplished by a mailed boot, then so be it. I wish to see especially the Minmatar brought into the fold, if only because of how close it all came to working out for the best prior to the rebellions. I wish to defend and broaded civilization. I don't, however, wish to travel by palanquin, carried by eight eunuchs. Or to have my silverware mined by Matari children rather than automatic excavators. I abhor needless suffering, and find the casual disregard of slave life a disgrace.

Reclaiming is gathering all the glory the Creator bestowed on us, and praising him for his largess. If that reclaiming is done with a gentle tongue and quick wit, with ISK and AUR, or at the point of a heavy laser battery is secondary to that holy duty.

I am not a theologian, but what I wouild like to see in my lifetime are salvation colleges dotting the worlds of the cluster, each schooling maybe a tenth of the young men and woman in due firmness, strictness and discipline, so they may act as seeds to bring in their less fortunate brethren. By hard labor, by Vitoxin if no other option presents itself, but most of all by God's word, to slowly replace the force of arms from without with the force of faith from within.