Test Server Feedback

"goons mocked my obviously forged goonswarm forum leaks, that means all my points are right the glaring math mistakes notwithstanding"

wait wait wait wait wait

Zloco Crendraven has already proven that siphons can't turn a profit in a day by his compelling argument that goons made fun of him when he said it therefore it must be right

what relevance do you think your math and spreadsheets have given the power of that reasoning

Yeah I don't know what is going on with that SA forum leak. Honestly I don't care. I'm just trying to help keep it real with facts. Although my chart is putting the siphon 'around '10 million ISK like CCP said it would be. I'm not sure how they will settle after Rubicon has been out for a while and the 'novelty' thing wears off.

why is it you think we'd send the same sort of fleets to defend even ~100m of moongoo as we'd send to say murder test

if the system mentioned by xttz was used we'd probably have squads and newbie fcs do them with like ten bored people who were online because it is not enough money to incentivize 100+ man fleets

after all, you call a bunch of those for random bullshit and they stop coming when you actually need them

the core objection xttz is making though is these are boring when used as anything but griefing

we can monitor our own empire fine, it'll be annoying but we can do it. the issue is we've just got a lot more pointless space-work that generates no content for anyone else. we survey towers every few hours, loot and blap siphons, log off

no content is generated for anyone by forcing us to do this. it's just a pointless increase in space work instead of space fun, and that's the symptom of a failed mechanic.

It is going to be hilarious fun killing and podding logistics guys who leave the POS to loot the siphons.

Seems to me price of 10 mill per siphon is sound. It is probably unreasonable to expect that thing to pay for itself in less then one game-play session when moon mining POS itself usually take ad lest few days to pay their own amortisation. Sure if POS owner logs in his alt once per day to check for his property he will suffer minimal loses, but for them to be so diligent is already much more then they have to do today to run their POS, so it seems that part is working as intended.

So if this structure punishes absentee POS owners that attend their property only once a fortnight or so, and leaves diligent owners safe, I'd say it has done it's purpose responsibly well. But I have some reservations with 20% waist factor. As an end product consumer I dislike anything that might reduce supply of manufacturing materials that might in turn push already excessive price of t2 ships even higher. I don't care who supplies the market, POS owner or random thief, as long as supply is not falling. So I must strongly urge devs to consider removing 20% waist penalty for the sake of maintaining reasonable t2 ship prices.

Its never fun for the victim... but I can bet someone will be having a little fun with this, profitable or not, that is after all the goonies motto right.. do whats fun for you

Well, I think the point is that the people that don't necessarily get their enjoyment from direct combat will have fun with this.

There are a lot of people that get their enjoyment from slipping in unseen, being stealthy, avoiding combat... often because they play solo or with a very small group.

This mechanic is intended for them, not for the more combat oriented among us. Even I will admit that occasionally stealthy activities of this sort have a certain appeal... although personally I grow tired of them quickly.

It's a demonstrably poor mechanic for griefing, even by a large group, unless the target POS owner is an absentee owner in a largely vacant system. (And if that's the case, they get what they deserve.) On any regularly checked POS, or any POS in a blue inhabited system, they will lose at most a few of percent in waste before the siphon is found, emptied, and destroyed. Less once it becomes apparent that they are a target.

"Oh, here comes the siphon alt again. Somebody log in their gunnery alt for a couple of minutes and blow em up."

What will be interesting is how you will handle things internally after the first month, when the occurrence of your alts finding a siphon attached to your POS's falls off sharply. Will you maintain the grind of logging on every few hours (or at least once a day) to check for them, or will it rapidly become not worth the trouble? And if your checks eventually become more infrequent, won't that open the door to the small time operator, since any large scale deployment will spark renewed interest in logging your gunnery alts on again?

It should be interesting to see where this all settles (realistically speaking) a few months after deployment.

You consider checking on the POS once a day as due diligence? I can check on the POS' I'm in charge of a few times a day. However, there's going to be a 7 hour gap when I go to bed and a 10 hour gap for work. The people using siphons can easily use kill mails to figure out when our corp is unable to babysit our POS' and place siphons right at those times. If this happens, we will be forced to shut down our moon mining operations unless market prices also increase enough to support the lost income.