Ships & Modules

I have a question about why they introduced it.. 10 years after the game released.

Kiting is better than brawling for small gang 100% of the time. To argue against, would simply be illogical.

As for your fallacious viewpoint that all of the 'elite' pvp players using links, implants, drugs, and kiting setups engage solo pilots- you would be sadly mistaken. Look at any of the good PvP organizations. Turn Left, Genos, Hydra, Exodus, The Hatchery, and some of the awsome PvP vids from 'worst player ever' and Gonrin. They are engaging against the odds 99% of the time.

When I take random pilots in the 'bringing solo back' game channel with me to go duo / in gang with me- they are blowm away at the level of PvP you can achive once you are good. Most of them derp and die, when flying- but its always fun and a learning experience. A friend of mine and myself have recently joined FA, and created a special group within the fail alliance- all to help teach and grow their PvP base. We have taken line members, and thrown them into 3v30 fights, with local at 250+ and shown them how to engage.

Just because you are not at this level, doesn't mean that you should smack talk it. Stop making assumptions about a style of PvP you have never experienced or paticipated in. Are there players that only engage in 'dirty' 1v1s when they have dual links, and snakes? Of course, but the vast majority (of the very small community that is elite PvP) do not.

Also as an aside, if you openly admit that you know nothing of missiles- stop trying to speak on the subject. Listen for a change, and stop letting your erroneous belifes and ego get in the way of your development as a pilot.

That's the same argument the tengu pilots used when HML got toned down. And the same argument you see cropping up when changes to how links will work are discussed. Sure i find those videos nice to look at and fun to watch, but they are rare cases and as you just said it's a very small community. Should balance work be done towards the minority?

In certain games yes. Of course you balance upwards because when the very optimal play style is balanced then it doesn't matter how the lower skill players fly. Their maximum performance for a given scenario has already been dictated for them against the ouput of better players. If you ignore that theory you open a can of worms and get things like 50 man hml tengu/caracal fleets of yester year.

Saying that is like pretending there is no balance when comparing a rook to a knight in chess. Yes they aren't directly comparable to each other because they function totally differently but we don't look at them without seeing the whole board and all the other pieces.

Since eve is designed with nullsec as the main feature I can only conclude that while ships might be balanced with *considerations* to 1v1 at the end of the day its gang/fleet that must take priority.

That depends on what you expect from null. Most of my activity therenis 5-20 people. Fleet to me means like 50+ and similarly weapons should be balanced towards fleet battles as well including consideration for links. Unfortunately it seems medium missiles aren't being balanced like that. While I can privately verify that HAM are good in and of themselves as soon as the target has any kind of respectable amount of speed you will not hurt them very much and this isn't helped either by the conclusion that ham=blaster=short range=brawler fit logic I see heavily implied. Whether light missiles should be bonused with range on cerb/caracal is a fair question on its own but should hams/heavies be getting explosion velocity bonuses due to implied kiting?

and what about when you introduce rapier/huginn to your cerbs side? Do the above changes still seem justified? Is any of it justified? Do missiles need midslot modules to increase dps application through explosion velocity?

Most of your activity is 5-20? Well to me anything less than 9 or so guys is small gang. I think that small gang / solo should be the point of balance for everything. Because I think that is what occurs most often, and in my oppinion it is these small roaming gangs that create the majority of player content and provide great PvP for the larger majority of eve. It makes me really sad that there is not a strong, staunch small gang supporter that is voted onto the CSM with real PvP knowledge of the game. It infurates me, that people like the mittani, who do no actual ingame PvP are given broad and sweeping powers over ship balance. Small gang / Solo is the balancing point of eve, not this sov block ****.

On to HAM's:

HAM's damage application does not change, no matter if you are at 1KM or 100KM. HMLs / HAMs are cruiser sized weapons that cannot apply full damage to a cruiser, even if it is webbed. There is something wrong with that. HAM's are not really brawling weapon systems, but the key to the argument here- is that the best way to increase their damage application is through webs, which is for the most part brawly.

So that is why you bring up the minny recons. Of course, with their super long webs- you can legitimately kite with HAM's, and provided that you have info links, a bonsed hull, and a bonsed TP in fleet- HAM's can become really, really scary. However here is the problem. A cruiser based weapon system, should not need info links, and a dual bonused recon in order to effectively apply damage to other cruisers. I think that we can all agree- that is crazy talk.

That is the root of the problem. Either give missile boats more role missile application bonus, change the ammo, or give us more mods to help agument the base stats of the ammo.

Some serious glorification of "ElITE" and "small community" here. More than anything I can't wait till off grid bonuses are removed and limited by a spherical range. I believe 80% of the pilots who now consider themselves "ELITE" will soon (In early 2014) find themselves average at best. A whole generation of pilots dependent on mechanics surrounding warfare links and strategic cruisers. Players able to engage targets around 40,000m and just orbiting other players in Condors, Caracals, Tier 3 Battlecruisers and near impervious to damage. I must say even flying with said pilots feels dirty. I cannot have a conversation about the current meta and combat dynamics without referenced stats and facts based on bonuses provided by warfare links.

Which is one of the reasons I TRY NOT TO interact with established characters/entities that consider themselves "ELITE" at all or at least to seriously. Which is also hard because I have so many ingame friends within said entities. The other main reason is it's more challenging leading or flying with less experienced and skilled pilots against more experienced and skilled pilots.

Anyway

HML ARE FINE. Heavy missiles have have a good place in PVE and in large scale engagements (6 - 200). I use a Tengu with heavy missiles for exploration (combat sites) and missions (sisters of Eve). The last time I used heavy missiles in combat was on a Navy Caracal solo (had a good run) and CFC blob (early Delve deployment and Fountain campaign with Caracals). Ofc I still know "ELITE" pilots who are still using HML-Drakes (Drake blobs are still serious business) successfully but with off grid bonuses of course. Heavy missile range and the Drake hull/bonuses made the weapon system out to be more than it was. Heavy missiles always had an issue applying damage to frigates without a stasis webifier applied. The only thing CCP should have done was to lower the range of HML's.

HAMS ARE ALSO FINE. They work and hit what they're suppose and do good damage to what they're not suppose to provided a stasis webifier is applied of course.

Being sid/speed tanked at unmodified speeds is a penalty turrets don't necessarily suffer. This is a matter of missile mechanics more than it is the target ship.

It's not that bad. The missile types don't directly compare to turrets thanks to signature differences.

If they should do anything to missile skills it is change gmp to have a stronger impact