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Eve needs new space with a twist....I present Eve Deepspace Regions
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ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-11-03 04:05:23 UTC
Caldari Acolyte wrote:
[... a prober could drop beacons as a reference as he maps out the uncharted space, New profession maybe ,Stellar Cartographer?


I quite like that as a way of expanding eve, actually. CCP adds 20,000 systems but doesn't tell anyone where they areTwisted
It's then up to the stellar cartographers to find them, "claim them", then reinforce that claim with the sov mechanics (or just keep them unclaimable).
Perhaps the more nomadic corps don't claim them, so they don't show on the map - just wandering from uncharted to uncharted...

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Reislier
#22 - 2011-11-03 04:10:56 UTC
I would like to see this new space and introduce distance.. real distance that is not traversed in a minute.

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.
Brannsy
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-11-03 04:21:02 UTC
ASadOldGit wrote:
Caldari Acolyte wrote:
[... a prober could drop beacons as a reference as he maps out the uncharted space, New profession maybe ,Stellar Cartographer?


I quite like that as a way of expanding eve, actually. CCP adds 20,000 systems but doesn't tell anyone where they areTwisted
It's then up to the stellar cartographers to find them, "claim them", then reinforce that claim with the sov mechanics (or just keep them unclaimable).
Perhaps the more nomadic corps don't claim them, so they don't show on the map - just wandering from uncharted to uncharted...




As a professional Explorer a fully support this thread and the above ideas. This would be a fantastic idea to expand the EVE Universe and to make Exploration very VERY interesting.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-11-03 04:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Seems to me you're suggesting a vast area of space only filled with some celestials, exploration (radar/mag/grav) sites, and anoms. TBH that sounds a lot like WH's.

The only way I could see something like this being fundamentally different from WH would be a vast (million AU * million AU * million AU) area of space with no celestials appearing on overview, and the only way to move around would be scanning. Could maybe have rogue moons and such. The problem is that were such area(s) to exist (be they stellar nurseries, binary systems, deadspace, etc.) they could cause severe server load due to having potentially thousands of pilots on a single shard.

BTW I'm all for it as I like/used to do exploration.
Commander TGK
The Deep Space Armada
#25 - 2011-11-03 04:42:54 UTC
As this thread gathers ideas and momentum, it actually sounds like a fantastic idea. Eve deep space regions could be the new highly dangerous endgame, and a great way for smaller alliances to make it out into the outer reaches of eve without being surrounded by Sov holding empires. A free for all resource rich space would make gameplay very very interesting. Imagine all the Orca's, rorqs, and capitals just floating around with their alliances in safe spots, looking for riches.
Ann133566
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-11-03 04:44:46 UTC
I think something like deep space would be a great idea for those who have played for a few years and are looking for a fresh challenge. I don’t necessarily agree with everything the OP proposed, but agree with the overall gist of it. The main problem will be the AI. Unfortunately we still live in an age where the computer AI is very limited. No matter how well designed or challenging the NPC’s are made, you can bet your bottom dollar that within hours it will be beaten, within days there will be guides online telling everyone how to beat them and within the end of the month people will be farming deep-space for ISK. This AI problem isn’t exclusive to EVE or even MMO’s. It one of the main problems with computer games in general whether it’s FIFA on the x-box or shogun total war on the PC, once you find the flaws or weaknesses in the AI you’ve pretty much beaten the game. Nowadays we get around this problem by playing other people, who for the most part learn from their mistakes and devise new strategies.

The only real solution to the problem of the dumb NPC is to have some sort of human control over them. I’m not talking hundreds of people controlling every single ship, but one or two people controlling the fleet size, composition and overall strategy of the NPCs and control the overall difficulty of the proposed deep-space end game in some way. I’m not sure that this is a viable idea or technically possible, but I’m unable to think of an alternative to the “dumb AI” problem.
ShadowFire15
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-11-03 04:49:49 UTC
i think i like the sound of this. potential deep space systems with no stations and maybe even no pos's. not sure as well about the no bubbles but i do think i like this idea

[i]Stan Smith had a snow storm over weekend guy was shoveling snow outside, so i shot him and mined the snow myself. concord never showed up. on an unrelated note, i have a court date next tuesday[/i]
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Doomheim
#28 - 2011-11-03 04:53:51 UTC
+1

You mean make parts of EVE like it used to be in the beginning. If you could make this a reality i would never go to SOVsec ever again.

No claims no bubbles all about exporation.


Question would there be PI or would everything have to be ferried in from highsec

Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-11-03 05:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Substance
Caldari Acolyte wrote:

Yes, well, the Eve Galaxy is a vastly scaled down version of the real thing. In regards to navigating in truely uncharted space, a prober could drop beacons as a reference as he maps out the uncharted space, New profession maybe ,Stellar Cartographer?

It has never been stated that new eden is a galaxy in its own right. It is implied in the original opening cutscene that new eden *could* be in a different galaxy to earth, by the fact that the corporations couldn't expand further from earth without the eve wormhole.

But equally, it could be that there were no more binary systems within stargate range in that portion of the galaxy, and that Eve lead to a different part of the same galaxy, with more binary systems, and there exists a deadzone of non-binary systems between the two.

Either way, new eden clearly has more systems to be expanded to. Expansion happens slowly in new eden because of the lack of super-luminal interstellar drive. To expand to a new system, you must first slowboat it there and build a stargate or pop a cyno. You can choose to do that either by sending a remote cyno drone, and just jumping a stargate build crew in, or sending a crew with the materials in hibernation, but either way it takes years to access a new star system once you know its there.

The odds are very good that new eden is only a mere fraction of the number of systems we could really reach.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Commander TGK
The Deep Space Armada
#30 - 2011-11-03 05:07:28 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Caldari Acolyte wrote:

Yes, well, the Eve Galaxy is a vastly scaled down version of the real thing. In regards to navigating in truely uncharted space, a prober could drop beacons as a reference as he maps out the uncharted space, New profession maybe ,Stellar Cartographer?

It has never been stated that new eden is a galaxy in its own right. It is implied in the original opening cutscene that new eden *could* be in a different galaxy to earth, by the fact that the corporations couldn't expand further from earth without the eve wormhole.

But equally, it could be that there were no more binary systems within stargate range in that portion of the galaxy, and that Eve lead to a different part of the same galaxy, with more binary systems, and there exists a deadzone of non-binary systems between the two.

Either way, new eden clearly has more systems to be expanded to. Expansion happens slowly in new eden because of the lack of super-luminal interstellar drive. To expand to a new system, you must first slowboat it there and build a stargate or pop a cyno. You can choose to do that either by sending a remote cyno drone, and just jumping a stargate build crew in, or sending a crew with the materials in hibernation, but either way it takes years to access a new star system once you know its there.

The odds are very good that new eden is only a mere fraction of the number of systems we could really reach.


That brings me too my next point, ≡V≡ needs more space. We are quite cluttered and nearly every wormhole is occupied.
Lelith Hellebron
#31 - 2011-11-03 05:22:01 UTC
ASadOldGit wrote:
I do like the idea of "wilder" untamed systems, perhaps binary or trinary systems, or even right smack in the middle of a stellar nursary, with proto-stars forming around you.
Perhaps even something with no warp-to points, no planets or moons, just a big 200-300 AU sphere of anoms you have to scan down - something you can truly get lost in.Blink




You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.

What if a change was implimented that allowed us to manually activate our warp drives, moving in any direction we choose in three dimensions, and able to set an exit from the warp tunnel anywhere along the line, who's length would be determined by capacitor capacity.

Personally, I think it's a little silly that we cannot do this already, though implimenting it would be difficult, I'm sure, and its uses limited. However, building on your idea, what if we had these deep-space spheres at 10k-50k AU across instead of a measaly 200-300? Entire corporations could 'hide in plain sight', as it were, simply due to the sheer magnitude of the space (which is how deep space would actually work). Such abilities and arenas would truly open up a multitude of possibilities for many aspects of the game, not just scanning.

Just brainstorming some effects this would give rise to;
-There would need to be changes to the scan skills tree to vastly increase the radius of a scan.
-Exploration ships would need to be cap heavy to warp in longer intervals, and thus be more efficient.
-These spaces could fit inside the cluster that already exists; between systems, as the space that Jump gates normally allow us to bypass.
-PVP in these areas would be interesting, as having speedy scanners and tacklers with a good, long warp distance would be crucial. Cap recharge would be important, as it would dictate how quickly you can make a significant jump again.
-Logistics would require good scanning scouts (to avoid pirates)

And that only scratches the surface. Such a big playground could be home to lots of interesting new gameplay elements.

[i]I am a leaf on the wind... Watch how I soar![/i]
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#32 - 2011-11-03 05:29:23 UTC
I really like this idea +1

Oderint Dum Metuant
Commander TGK
The Deep Space Armada
#33 - 2011-11-03 05:39:12 UTC
Lelith Hellebron wrote:
ASadOldGit wrote:
I do like the idea of "wilder" untamed systems, perhaps binary or trinary systems, or even right smack in the middle of a stellar nursary, with proto-stars forming around you.
Perhaps even something with no warp-to points, no planets or moons, just a big 200-300 AU sphere of anoms you have to scan down - something you can truly get lost in.Blink




You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.

What if a change was implimented that allowed us to manually activate our warp drives, moving in any direction we choose in three dimensions, and able to set an exit from the warp tunnel anywhere along the line, who's length would be determined by capacitor capacity.

Personally, I think it's a little silly that we cannot do this already, though implimenting it would be difficult, I'm sure, and its uses limited. However, building on your idea, what if we had these deep-space spheres at 10k-50k AU across instead of a measaly 200-300? Entire corporations could 'hide in plain sight', as it were, simply due to the sheer magnitude of the space (which is how deep space would actually work). Such abilities and arenas would truly open up a multitude of possibilities for many aspects of the game, not just scanning.

Just brainstorming some effects this would give rise to;
-There would need to be changes to the scan skills tree to vastly increase the radius of a scan.
-Exploration ships would need to be cap heavy to warp in longer intervals, and thus be more efficient.
-These spaces could fit inside the cluster that already exists; between systems, as the space that Jump gates normally allow us to bypass.
-PVP in these areas would be interesting, as having speedy scanners and tacklers with a good, long warp distance would be crucial. Cap recharge would be important, as it would dictate how quickly you can make a significant jump again.
-Logistics would require good scanning scouts (to avoid pirates)

And that only scratches the surface. Such a big playground could be home to lots of interesting new gameplay elements.



And again more awesome ideas are added to the mix. They have been saying they want an expansion of the same scope and popularity as Apocrypha, this could be perfect.
Captain Alcatraz
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2011-11-03 05:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Alcatraz
What made EVE special when it started was its cold, mysterious atmosphere, the unknown. Years later 0.0 feels no more special or distant than high sec, thanks to jump bridges, jump freighters, warp to 0 and its stagnant state. EVE was EVE when alliances had to escort convoys of freighters into deep 0.0 to move supplies or build an outpost, having to defend them from ambushes, that's the spirit of the EVE I loved, a dangerous, real space odyssey.

High sec needs less ISK generated in it, and the 4 empires separated by low sec systems
Low sec needs to feel more like far west, a place for gold diggers, caravans and bandits
0.0 needs to be more dangerous, less accessible, makes you feel you're somewhere far in space not 2-3 JBs away from empire
WHs are a step in the right direction but once you've been there 2-3 times, you've seen it all

What EVE needs in 2011 to bring back some of its original spirit is more mystery, make those stories in chronicles possible for players. A great addition would be MASSIVE uncharted space around 0.0, accessible through abandonned / hidden stargates. There would be no local, no bounties, you could make dozens of jumps into desert systems, having to take note of your route, to finaly end up discovering a jovian stations in ruins, experiments of prototype technology made by empires or pirate factions, remains of unknown civilsations, traces of early / alien space exploration, a pirate / hostile lair in the middle of nowhere à la bad guys systems of Mass Effect, buildable + destructible player outposts, etc. Players could map this space and sell their work, making good maps or falses ones leading their buyers into a trap. That's the EVE I dream of, hope the game is something like this if its still around in 10-15 years
Commander TGK
The Deep Space Armada
#35 - 2011-11-03 05:48:15 UTC
Captain Alcatraz wrote:
What made me love EVE when it started was the cold, mysterious atmosphere, the unknown. Years later 0.0 feels no more special or distant than high sec, thanks to jump bridges, jump freighters, warp to 0 and its stagnant state. EVE was EVE when alliances had to escort convoys of freighters into deep 0.0 to move supplies or build an outpost, having to defend them from ambushes, that's the spirit of the EVE I loved, a dangerous, real space odyssey.

High sec needs less ISK generated in it, and the 4 empires separated by low sec systems
Low sec needs to feel more like far west, a place for space gold diggers, caravans and bandits
0.0 needs to be more dangerous, less accessible, makes you feel you're somewhere far in space not 2-3 JBs away from empire
WHs are a step in the right direction but once you've been there 2-3 times, you've seen it all

What EVE needs in 2011 to bring more of its original spirit is more mystery, make those stories in chronicles possible for players. A great addition would be MASSIVE uncharted space around 0.0, where there is no local, no bounties, where you could make dozens of jumps into desert systems, having to take note of your route, to finaly end up discovering a jovian stations in ruins, corporations testing prototype technology, remains of civilsations unknown, traces of early / alien space exploration, a pirate / hostile lair in the middle of nowhere à la bad guys systems of Mass Effect etc. Players could map this space and sell their work, making good maps or falses ones leading their buyers into a trap.

That's the EVE I dream of



Well put
ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-11-03 06:24:56 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:


... To expand to a new system, you must first slowboat it there and build a stargate or pop a cyno...


Just skimming that story, after the slowboating, they invented jump drives that didn't need cynos, so why can't CCP supply us with something similar, even if it results in massive inaccuracy in the destination point?

Lelith Hellebron wrote:


You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
...
Just brainstorming some effects this would give rise to;
-There would need to be changes to the scan skills tree to vastly increase the radius of a scan.
-Exploration ships would need to be cap heavy to warp in longer intervals, and thus be more efficient.
-These spaces could fit inside the cluster that already exists; between systems, as the space that Jump gates normally allow us to bypass.
-PVP in these areas would be interesting, as having speedy scanners and tacklers with a good, long warp distance would be crucial. Cap recharge would be important, as it would dictate how quickly you can make a significant jump again.
-Logistics would require good scanning scouts (to avoid pirates)

Dreaming bigger, I can imagine one day these explorers explore so far out they make a discovery that threatens the very existence of New Eden - they create a path from the k-space systems to the w-space systems, allowing a full-scale invasion of New Eden by the sleepers (who I imagine are rather miffed by now at us popping their drones, and frustrated with the mass limitations of natural wormholes).

(Assumption: I haven't seen it stated anywhere that w-space is in the same galaxy as k-space, but I'll go with the following explanation - the wormholes connecting to w-space are "smaller" than the original intergalactic wormhole at EVE-Gate (is that it's name?), implying they're connecting to something closer. Yeah, I just made that up Roll)

Anyway, I can imagine tens of thousands of sleepers spearheading their way through nullsec, ripping sovereignty away from the alliances, spiralling in to the empire systems like a hunter circling its prey, forcing tens of thousands of capsuleers (and perhaps even the faction navies) to fight for their very existence. Twisted

War on an unimaginable scale!

(I think CCP will need to invest in cryogenic cooling for the server cluster, just to cope with the load we want to put on it. If necessary, we'll take over the whole goddamn internet just to keep the eve cluster going!)

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Aggressive Nutmeg
#37 - 2011-11-03 06:33:09 UTC
What about warpdrive malfunctions that throw you into Witchspace?

Ah, those were the days. Big smile

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-11-03 06:57:42 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Seems to me you're suggesting a vast area of space only filled with some celestials, exploration (radar/mag/grav) sites, and anoms. TBH that sounds a lot like WH's.



You're right - there are big similarities to WHs - probably the only real differences are their size and how you access them - natural wormholes vs artificial wormholes (whether stargates, jump drives or some new technology).

But a star system is just a star system - its nature doesn't change just because a wormhole created a shortcut to it, instead of requiring 1000 stargate jumps to "slow-warp" your way there. At some point, someone would invent other ways of getting to these "wild" systems, whether they're in a similar location to existing WHs or completely new ones.

I'd love to be corrected, but I get the impression that CCP just tacked on a bunch of systems, and made them hard to get to, without putting them into context with New Eden. Any chance of a CCP designer stating if these systems are in the same galaxy, and if (theoretical) new systems would be placed into context too?

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Shirah Yuri
Tonic Empire
#39 - 2011-11-03 08:24:20 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
The problem is that were such area(s) to exist (be they stellar nurseries, binary systems, deadspace, etc.) they could cause severe server load due to having potentially thousands of pilots on a single shard.


It's a challenge to be addressed, but not a stopping problem. All it would require is a partitioning of space (via oct-trees, hilbert-curves or the like). People would never need to see the WHOLE of deepspace, but actually only their current partition and neighboring ones on their scan. Most "partitions" would even most likely remain empty.

Handover from one partition to the other would be the only true challenge, maybe requiring some new concepts for the eve backend.

That's actually the way that HUGE astrophysical hydrodynamics simulations are done, with severall tens of millions of interacting particles, including dynamic handover from one node to the other and the like.

Quintessence: I love the idea and I think it could be well doable. Introduce maybe a nomadic baseship to give the "home" feeling. No sovereignity mechanics out there, please. It's vast space. Hard to stick your flag to something there ;)
Zyrbalax III
Goldcrest Enterprises
#40 - 2011-11-03 09:56:27 UTC
I love this idea. I have one suggestion to add. Rather than making deepspace full of "untold riches" - which as has been pointed out would in no time make deepspace the latest ISK farm - make it ISK-poor but full of challenges. So you go there to explore, to have fun, to test yourself, not to make ISK.

All currently-known EVE systems are binaries, so maybe deepspace could include single star systems as well?