Intergalactic Summit

I don't know why you're trying to connect the two, I certainly wasn't. If you're going to invent an argument that never actually exist, then by all means I'm sure you can find a wall to have it with. Otherwise, if you don't mind going back and reading what I said, rahter than trying to put two and two together and coming up with five, I'll gladly continue this debate if you have something relevant to say. Trying to go off topic by arguing a made up point, one I never stated, isn't going to work with me, Gesakaarin.

That said if you want examples at the political leadership level, there's plenty of speeches from Heth's later days trying to villify the Federation, heck let's not forget that fantastic attempt at offering "condolences" to the Republic. Heth was essentially doing on a grand public scale what several State loyallists attempt to do now, sow seeds of discontent through utter bullshit.




The Thukker also have their presence within the Republic, as far as stations in the Metropolis area, even in high security space.

Supporting Caldari independence is not the same as wanting to go to war over it.

They weren't given an option to leave. They were exiled. Some joined the Caldari side in the war, later to become Mordu's Legion. Others chose not to fight, despite being forced from their homes. They became the Intaki Syndicate.

Except I didn't say that, I'm still not saying that, and you're trying to push that stance on me.

The Federation has been accused of "meddling in the affairs of the State" on many different levels on many different occasions, you're sticking with one example you self-provided that I didn't bring into this debate. You're creating a self-designed argument, and one I'm not going to take up for your pre-tailored debate no matter how hard you try to push it.

Either work with what I actually said, or don't waste my time.

You're the one that raised the initial point here:





You began trying to discuss the relevance of meddling and hypocrisy as you see it, in a discussion about the Intaki Syndicate and the foreign policies of the Federation towards it. I can hardly put words in the mouth of someone else when they actually say it.

Because of other activity in this thread, it took me a while to get to this.

This language you're using here manages to be both extremely self-serving and incredibly insulting to both Federalist Intaki and non-Intaki Federals. This? This is why I find so much trouble debating most Caldari rationally. Even though it has perfecty legitimate grievances with the Federation, the State still manages to possess a towering combined hero-victim complex, and the way it projects that onto its dealings with other nations is honestly teeth-grinding.

You said earlier in this thread (or it may have been the other one) that the bombardment of Caldari Prime wasn't ancient history for the Caldari. Maybe not, but it's still history. It's still in the past. It happened. The vast majority of people who live in the Federation today don't approve of it. The vast majority of people who live in the Federation today weren't even alive when it happened. The people responsible for the decisions that led to it were imprisoned or exiled from the Federation. Yet State capsuleers still appoint blame for the bombardment of Caldari Prime as if people like myself had our fingers on the buttons. Our ancestors - and your ancestors - are forcing us to bear the burden of sins that never belonged to us.

You aren't "seeing another client race leave the big, bad Federation" or "being there for a seceding race in their hour of need." You're all projecting your own vendetta onto my people's struggles for prosperity and success within - or, in the case of the seccessionalists - without the Federation. Federalist Intaki certainly don't want your "help" and while I may not know everything about secessionalist Intaki they sure as hell aren't seceeding for you, they're seceeding for us, however misguided that sentiment may be. And trust me, if you wanted to score some sort of diplomatic point with either the secessionalists or the Federealists by bringing up a Caldari occupation of our homeworld, you ****ed up. Do the caldari want to score points with either faction of Intaki? Then stay the hell away from our homeworld, and the system it resides in. You want to call that Federal territory? Yeah, some might agree, some might disagree. But first and foremost it's ours. It belongs to the Intaki people, the Intaki Assembly (as a member of the Federation) and the Caldari have never, read never, had any claim to it, no matter what Heth's auction falsely claims.

Trust me, the Intaki people might not be thrilled that the Federation is at war right now, but anyone thinking that we're somehow becoming more sympathetic to a State which auctioned our planets to its own megacorporations is in for a massive, crippling disappointment. The absolute best the State could possibly hope for at this point is that we'll start despising both of you, but right now the State bears the brunt of it, because in a stroke of sheer lunacy you managed to become everything that you hated most, and we had to suffer for it.


This is a question that's going to take a while to answer. I'll have to consider how to write it up. It certainly won't fit in the remaining character limit for this post.

Of course I did, because any amount of perceived 'meddling' a Federal apologist may bemoan when contrary opinion is presented as regards the Federal government and its policies it is nothing compared to actual meddling the Federation conducts in the external affairs of other nations and peoples through its espionage rings. As such, anyone at any time -- not just Caldari -- can make the legitimate point that the Federation is a meddlesome nation and it will be a factual statement I would say. So if the Federation and its lackeys enjoy meddling in the affairs of others, then they shouldn't be making tangential points about others meddling in what they perceive as their own affairs.

I might intercede here and say that my suuolo and I might share the opinion that our loyalty is proven by the blood we shed, and the lives we take in the defense of our Fatherland and not in the writing of soporific essays on the IGS about it.

Personally, I prove my loyalty to Kaalakiota and the State by doing **** and not just talking **** on the IGS, eh?

"Quick! Quick! Move the goalposts, or the Federals might score!"

altho being intaki has had its low points, and a struggle it was for me for awhile, I could enter into any political arena even thou I may be indirectly involved in it...

Intaki/Caldari affairs tho external as it may seem, is probly just that and we (or they I should say) just live their lives doin what they do best...probly political subversion ans I have not seen an ounce of clout coming out of Intaki space...

I dont want any part of it anyways...I question my loyalty to the Intaki...The Caldari need to be respected as a broot Navy force to be reckoned with...as for the political arena the Intaki need to leave it be and stay subversive...that is what little societies do now...that is all we can, and should do...

it only takes one drop to raise the sea...lets not create waves...go back home and rest for awhile...you will see the light...

GADS what am I saying...I been down here too long...

Darian

1. Nowhere was Mr. Ixiris was mentioned as part or even in passing in the very text you have quoted.

2. I do not have to provide reason or rationale for my service to my Fatherland to foreigners and outsiders, either at length or in brief. My comrades in arms, my family, certainly I would elaborate to them if asked and they so desired. I personally see little value in expressing at length why you are loyal to a cause or a nation in public. For me it's a simple matter, I was born Caldari, I am loyal to my people.

Although if it's expression without words I suppose I'd prefer to express my loyalty through carnage and gunfire as opposed to what seems to be the Caillean norms of expression through limp-wristed interpretive dance.