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Intaki and the Federation
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Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#201 - 2013-11-05 19:50:50 UTC
Even if our respective nations don't travel this path of mutual assistance, there's absolutely no reason that we can't.
Anslo
Scope Works
#202 - 2013-11-05 19:56:16 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Even if our respective nations don't travel this path of mutual assistance, there's absolutely no reason that we can't.

....yeah....you're sorta right I guess.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2013-11-05 20:01:06 UTC
NATD? No, no, but I'll get behind this idea unhesitantly if we find a better acronym. Something that rolls off the tongue better than natdee.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Anslo
Scope Works
#204 - 2013-11-05 20:03:35 UTC
Fine Mr. Eloquence, you figure it out.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2013-11-05 20:08:58 UTC
Alliance for National Security and Logistics Operations.

Surely that should appeal to you.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#206 - 2013-11-05 20:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Because of other activity in this thread, it took me a while to get to this.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I have read opinions from numerous people on the subject in this thread. I've also had the opportunity to trot my opinion out and see how it fares under fire. Actually, I think I've read things that you wrote on Intaki history in this thread.

As for why Caldari are interested, I suspect it varies from person to person. No doubt there is a strong thread of Schadenfreude running through it - the pleasure at seeing another client race leave the big, bad, Federation - thus adding more validation to the decisions of our ancestors. That's maybe not the most noble emotion, but it is very human.

However, perhaps it's also the desire to be there for a seceding race in their hour of need, in a way that nobody was there for us when we needed that help. That's a much nobler perspective and, unless you subscribe to the theory that the State has no nobler intentions within it, it might be wise to show people the benefit of the doubt.

This language you're using here manages to be both extremely self-serving and incredibly insulting to both Federalist Intaki and non-Intaki Federals. This? This is why I find so much trouble debating most Caldari rationally. Even though it has perfecty legitimate grievances with the Federation, the State still manages to possess a towering combined hero-victim complex, and the way it projects that onto its dealings with other nations is honestly teeth-grinding.

You said earlier in this thread (or it may have been the other one) that the bombardment of Caldari Prime wasn't ancient history for the Caldari. Maybe not, but it's still history. It's still in the past. It happened. The vast majority of people who live in the Federation today don't approve of it. The vast majority of people who live in the Federation today weren't even alive when it happened. The people responsible for the decisions that led to it were imprisoned or exiled from the Federation. Yet State capsuleers still appoint blame for the bombardment of Caldari Prime as if people like myself had our fingers on the buttons. Our ancestors - and your ancestors - are forcing us to bear the burden of sins that never belonged to us.

You aren't "seeing another client race leave the big, bad Federation" or "being there for a seceding race in their hour of need." You're all projecting your own vendetta onto my people's struggles for prosperity and success within - or, in the case of the seccessionalists - without the Federation. Federalist Intaki certainly don't want your "help" and while I may not know everything about secessionalist Intaki they sure as hell aren't seceeding for you, they're seceeding for us, however misguided that sentiment may be. And trust me, if you wanted to score some sort of diplomatic point with either the secessionalists or the Federealists by bringing up a Caldari occupation of our homeworld, you ****ed up. Do the caldari want to score points with either faction of Intaki? Then stay the hell away from our homeworld, and the system it resides in. You want to call that Federal territory? Yeah, some might agree, some might disagree. But first and foremost it's ours. It belongs to the Intaki people, the Intaki Assembly (as a member of the Federation) and the Caldari have never, read never, had any claim to it, no matter what Heth's auction falsely claims.

Trust me, the Intaki people might not be thrilled that the Federation is at war right now, but anyone thinking that we're somehow becoming more sympathetic to a State which auctioned our planets to its own megacorporations is in for a massive, crippling disappointment. The absolute best the State could possibly hope for at this point is that we'll start despising both of you, but right now the State bears the brunt of it, because in a stroke of sheer lunacy you managed to become everything that you hated most, and we had to suffer for it.


First of all, I don't know anybody that mentioned a seceding Intaki population necessarily joining the State. I certainly didn't, so you're putting words in my mouth. Why would we want to dislocate our own society by trying to integrate another culture, anyway? Why would we want to do anything but trade? Here's a little hint that might help you to understand the Caldari a bit better - we already think our State is pretty damn good. We don't necessarily think it gets better by adding jaijii to it, in fact a large, culturally homogenous, bloc of people would probably have a much harder time integrating into the State than the individuals who yearly apply.

Secondly, I don't know what you think I'm doing here, but it isn't playing some sort of elaborate points scoring game. Like it or not, the Intaki have become relevant to my interests. I spent years trying to understand the Achurans, with limited success, so I'm somewhat surprised that you'd see only sinister motivations in my trying to understand a somewhat similarly philosophical culture that events have forced me into proximity to. (Note, I did not say that the Intaki and Achura are philosophically similar, just that they are similarly less pragmatic than this poor Civire.)

Thirdly, I'm getting pretty tired of being attacked for being a propagandist by people who are so keen to cast my words in a bad light that they can twist a plea to consider that some Caldari might be acting out of sympathetic intentions as 'self serving and insulting'. Sorry if I refuse to be the monster you seem to need me to be, Andreus.

Put yourself in my position and take a breath before you respond, ask yourself how you'd respond in my place.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#207 - 2013-11-05 20:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Luminaire Alliance Watchdogs for Better Relations, Intelligence and Neighbourly General Emergency Response Squad.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#208 - 2013-11-05 20:21:14 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Luminaire Alliance Watchdogs for Better Relations, Intelligence and Neighbourly General Emergency Responce Squad.


Response

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2013-11-05 20:23:24 UTC
Alliance for National Defense, Reconaissance, Espionage and Undercover Surveillance.

I would work in the Interstellar Xenobiological Intelligence, Research and Intellectual Study division.

There, perfect.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#210 - 2013-11-05 20:24:03 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Luminaire Alliance Watchdogs for Better Relations, Intelligence and Neighbourly General Emergency Responce Squad.


Response


Thank you, I confess to being somewhat distracted at this time.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Anslo
Scope Works
#211 - 2013-11-05 20:24:44 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Alliance for National Security and Logistics Operations.

Surely that should appeal to you.

Just cause I'm part Gallente doesn't mean I'm that much of a narcissist. That's a stupid name.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#212 - 2013-11-05 20:24:57 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Alliance for National Defense, Reconaissance, Espionage and Undercover Surveillance.

I would work in the Interstellar Xenobiological Intelligence, Research and Intellectual Study division.

There, perfect.


I tried something with State and Federal in it but couldn't quite make SNAFU work.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2013-11-05 20:30:26 UTC
See, my nametag would be Dr. Andreus Ixiris - ANDREUS (IXIRIS).

This would be the best thing ever.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Anslo
Scope Works
#214 - 2013-11-05 20:30:30 UTC
SAFIRE
State and Federal Free Investment and Reconnaissance Entente

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#215 - 2013-11-05 21:59:02 UTC
Joint Security Association? JSA is nice and compac-

Oh, wait. I get it now :) Can I call it Team Spaceforce? I like that show. I want to have the yellow and white ship, though.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#216 - 2013-11-05 22:30:26 UTC
Unfortunately Team SpaceForce is right out, those initials went elsewhere a while ago..


All silly names aside, the talk of a co-operative capsuleer measure between the Federation and the State (although I would prefer this extend to all CONCORD signatories, but hey, baby steps!) is something I'd be interesting in helping develop. Peaceful co-existence between Sovereign entities to tackle joint threats is a goal I can firmly stand behind.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#217 - 2013-11-05 23:26:00 UTC
If I wasn't spending most of my waking hours shooting the FDU I'd be all over this as an idea whose time has come.

Sadly, I fear my participation would be counterproductive.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Anslo
Scope Works
#218 - 2013-11-05 23:55:57 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Sadly, I fear my participation would be counterproductive.

Not if I bring the cognac it won't.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#219 - 2013-11-06 00:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Sadly any active militia participation wouldn't really work in such an initiative due to fleets coming across bit-part legal engagements.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2013-11-06 01:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
I think the CEP and Senate should meet up in neutral territory, say Caldari Prime, and have an outing. Go hover-skiing down the Kaalakoita mountains at something. See whoever breaks the sound barrier first. Then both sides get to pick something for both groups to go to. The CEP would probably pick Asteroid Golf and the Senate would probably wind up going for either a super strip club or a Mind Clash tournament.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!