EVE General Discussion

I am curious as to why "PvP" was presented as one element, while Industry was broken into three pieces, and all PvE content apart from missions was omitted.

Who is the intended audience? In the OP it is hinted that the intended audience might be people who don't play EVE. So here is now I would reduce EVE to the classic elevator spiel in as few dot points as possible:

EVE is a competitive multiplayer virtual world where you define your own goals and determine you own destiny, with the main activities being:

• PvP space combat
• PvE space combat
• Industry
• Trade & Business
• Media & Propaganda
• Government & Politics

See, at least I am trying to be constructive rather than being Doctor Nope.

You forgot:

• Scam
• Steal
• Gank
• Troll
• Corporation Management
• Alliance Management
• Setting up gambling sites for [REDACTED]

And lets not forget the allmighty ship spinning!

That's pretty much the main problem of the game. A lot of interesting things you can do in it doesn't even require you to log in. So the question: is it really CCP's EVE that is fun, or the one in our heads? I think it was OP's point all along.

I get what you are saying, and normally, I would be the first one to jump on the troll wagon, with some snarky, smug response.

However...I will debate this point to you, because Ironically, I was very near an EvE burnout period, and it is important that people do not give up on this game (complex or simple...fun or not fun...whatever), for several obvious reasons (CCP complacency, more people = more interaction, etc.), and several smaller reasons (for instance...It has, despite the tendency to troll, a very solid and helpful community, who work hard for it to run smoothly and like a well-oiled machine...i.e. Chribba and his various tools we use consistently.)

The OP's point was that the game lacks complexity, and can be boiled down to 5 activities, as seen here...



He then goes on to say that the illusional "complexity" is based on several hundred skills that only serve to make one of the above 5 activities "better." As seen here...



At which point, Tippia, in her usual logical fashion retorts with a comment with a little bit of smug...



Now notice the things I have highlighted in Tippia's post. All three pertain to the same thing...boiling "EvE" as a concept, game, whatever into 5 categories, and claiming a lack of complexity.

At which point, I stumble upon the thread, and I further Tippia's smug reductionism to even further smug reductionism, with my post above, while simultaneously showing the OP exactly how complex EvE as a game, really is. Not that I needed to, because Tippia had already posted the "What to do in EvE" roadmap, but more because I choose to "Forum PvP" from time to time...as it can generate a wealth of tears, lol.

So it isn't an issue of "what is in our heads," but rather, an issue of fact versus fiction. And claiming a lack of complexity in EvE is wrong and a statement based in fiction.

Now, that being said, instead of showing you the flaw in your statement, I will give you my actual feelings on the subject. In order for me to properly explain, let's divide EvE into 4 things...The Game, The Tools, The Meta, and The Concept.

First, the game. The "game" itself is not complex. Because the reality is, intrinsically, a sandbox at it's "core" is not complex. It is four walls and sand. EvE can be boiled down to the OP, Tippia's opening statement, as well as my first post. All simultaneously. However, like any sandbox, you need tools...

The Tools are complex. Some examples...

-Manufacturing. I cannot wrap my head around it, I know a lot who cannot wrap their head around it, and I am sure many more to come, as well as others I do not know, cannot wrap their head around it. Some can, others can't. It is deeply complex.

-Pre-Odyssey Exploration. We all know the outcome of that. I used to spend forever pinpointing sig's, but now can usually find something in minutes.

Or perhaps, you'd prefer a more "hand's on" example of how complex the tools can be...

-Let's say you start a combat toon. Start's in a newb ship, like everyone else. Two days or less later...a frig. Now the flight similarities stop there. Your next jump is into a cruiser. A cruiser flies exponentially different than a frig. With a bunch of things to account for when you make the jump. Higher sig radius, more mass, etc. This impacts your fits, how you fly, and so on. You certainly are not going to use a kiting ship for brawling, or vice versa. Can it be done? Sure it can, but that is the complexity of the tool you have chosen to use. It's versatility. How about a cloaky? Or any number of other sub-cap "specializations?" What about the jump to capitals? How about switching from one weapon type to another? New sets of mechanics to worry about.

I could go on with that, but I am pretty sure you know how deep the rabbit hole can go on that one.

Now The Meta, is not so much complex as it is deep. I would count the meta as player interaction, "outside of client" gaming, etc. And The Meta can go as deep as you want it to. For instance...

Sorry for the vagueness, but I am sure you understand.

-I currently have an alt in Corp A. I also have an alt in Corp B. A very good EvE friend is in Corp C. Corp C provided me information regarding two of his personal enemies, and a rough outline of what he wanted. All three corp leaders were once previous corp mates. Now...via out of game means, as I hate playing on low SP characters, I am creating enough dissent in Corp A, so that Corp B can be aggressed by Corp A to gank the entity in question in Corp B. Very little has taken place in game. The ultimate goal, however, is not only to get a very specific ship kill from Corp B, but also, by using dissent, and a rocky past, getting bumped into a directorate spot for providing "solid intel," for the true prize...the complete destruction of Corp A.

Items used...
-TS3
-Private Corp forums
-"EvE Paranoia"

No in-game mechanics.

Then there is The Concept. The Concept is arguably the most complex thing of all.

EvE is a social experiment, plain and simple. Throw several thousand people into a world, with few rules, and see what happens. And we do not disappoint.

Thank you. And I am not meaning to bite him either, but the complexity is more than there, lol.

For instance, I have been playing for several years, and I literally just found out that you could fly a ship with T2 rigs, despite not having the skills for them. And I have read a lot about EVE. And I have come across a lot of people in EvE. And I only found that out a week ago. How crazy is that?

This is a game where you can literally learn something new every day, which is why I came back and posted proper, rather than troll even more. The OP's base analysis is fabrication of the mind.

Out of curiosity I'd like to know whats the highest rating anyone has achieved in WoW arenas.

KnowUsByTheDead:

For me the game is based mainly on player interaction and the truth is if you got brain nothing can beat that. I played ultima, lineage II (pretty long time), I am even ex wow gladiator (beat that deepshit in few months - waste of money). I am not so much into scifi but the truth is the eve online is the best choice out there. Since lineage died after c4 tho it was the greatest mmo ever created if you ask me there is nothing that can compere to it. Not even eve yet its really close to it. I mean look at those mmos today. Its made for five years old bastards just to milk their money. EVERY mmo out there is just low and dumb as fck. Its made by fools for fools I mean really look at it and think about it. Not EVE thats why I stick with her and I WILL stick with her becuase there is no any other hardcore or mature mmo. And the people like the OP is one of the reasons why all that happend (dont take it personaly OP..or better do). That kind of people ruined mmo industry because they are cheap milking machines with taste for fun like 50years old whore reading celebrity magazines. I am saying FCUK him ! Why should we suffer of his opinion while he is clearly idiot that cant entertain himself irl. This is not about game for me...

Nah, http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

So, OP........Can I have your stuff then???

I'll put it to no use, as there is evidently nothing to do in EVE, but at least you won't have to worry about having stuff with no use.

Just trying to help a brother/sister out

There are really only 4 things you can do in EVE.

Gather stuff.
Build stuff.
Destroy stuff.
Sell stuff.

The ways you do these things are complex.

The ways you interact with others are complex.

The way you decide what to do next can be complex.

The rules of the game are pretty simple and laid out well in most cases.

IE, you need X resources to make Y. You mine X m3 per cycle and the cycle is Y long. You do X dps and can tank y damage.

It's all very clearly laid out but the emergent gameplay of combining a system where you can produce stuff, move it around, and destroy and be destroyed, well... that's complex.

EVE is not really a simple game, you can make it sound simple though. It is complex. It's even more complex when you put the different pieces together and make a whole out of it. While