These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Rubicon - Is Drone BS / Carrier ratting dead?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#61 - 2013-10-31 00:58:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Spankijs Omaristos wrote:
Also, MJD has a long spool time - correct me if Im wrong here, but I believe its longer than actual align time for BS to get into warp :) With MJD skill @ 5 was it 9 seconds to spool it up?

It's not. Pretty much all BS benefit from MWD-cycle warping since that pegs it at a fixed 10 seconds. So a 9 second spool up is shorter than that.

But more to the point, the MJD lets you quickly and trivially reposition yourself so the incoming ship is not guaranteed to land right on top of you, and while he's chasing you down, you're already half-way through a spool-up that will create enough distance to ensure that you get away.


Just remember that there is a fixed 180 second cool down between activations of the MJD.

But since you come out of MJD with maximum forward velocity, regardless what speed your ship was at entering the jump, you can easily use the MJD to get you into warp in 9 seconds instead of 10: Activate MJD, align to station, start spamming "Warp To".

Of course the interceptor will be on top of you in about 5-8 seconds.

I can see a lot of folks complaining that L4 missions "pay too well" after the Rubicon patch, because they want CCP to change the economic balance to force them to go back to null sec rather than taking the easy way out and running L4s for their ISK. Here's how it works in my head:


  1. Ratting in DPS-fit battleship and carrier setups becomes less efficient because seeing reds in local is no longer enough warning to dock at a station
  2. Ratting in an agile ratting ship is lower pay for more stress
  3. Lazy ratters end up moving to hi sec where they can make a steady 30-70M/hr running L4s in bling-fit Machariels and Nightmares, and they don't even have to remain alert on local, intel channels, or voice comms
  4. Lazy ratters have their bling-fit machariels and nightmares suicide ganked
  5. While grinding back the ISK to cover the loss of the bling, the lazy ratters feel that they would move back to null to rat if only L4s could be made less effective compared to Ishtar ratting. At least the pain of losing ratting time to a red in intel channels is less than the pain of losing a 35B paladin
  6. Obvious course of action is complaining that L4s pay too much and need to be nerfed (because running a T2 sentry domi is not as efficient or fun as a bling-fit pirate or T2 battleship)


Day 0 Advice for New Players
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#62 - 2013-10-31 01:03:32 UTC
Those drone boats are big enough to carry a set of ECM drones. So do it. Should be able to use them since you should have the Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing trained anyway for the extra control range. Lol
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#63 - 2013-10-31 01:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Borsek wrote:
Rat in an ishtar.

MJD and cloak.

Don't stay at 0km from the warpin.

Have an alt falcon.

Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here).

Stop being a whining scrub.

Bubble all gates in system when ratting.


All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them?



I think inties are being slated to be immune to the bub.




meanwhile..... tears



But why? Are there no tools already at the hands of every nullseccer that already protects them? Intel channels? Hot drops?

I was under the impression that the moment any ships crosses into nullsec, 50 carriers show up and destroy it, and the killmail gets pasted in every billboard in the victims hometown and the ladies won't want to talk to him any more, and his dog will run away, and the earth will open up and swallow his house, and all that.

Who is worried and why?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#64 - 2013-10-31 01:34:16 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
Those drone boats are big enough to carry a set of ECM drones. So do it. Should be able to use them since you should have the Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing trained anyway for the extra control range. Lol


An interceptor is a frigate, and an ishtar with 4 drone damage mods is one of the best antifrigate platforms in the game. By the time I jammed one with "never works when you need them 300s", my 400 dps lights should have eaten the damn interceptor already, and there is no reason I can't have 3 sets of lights, thus be able to choose a sensible damage type.

Not that its likely I'll stick around - I'll refit my ishtar so it can stand still, so its just retract and go, and I'll avoid the gate-line when warping to anoms to buy myself a couple of seconds more.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#65 - 2013-10-31 01:36:19 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Borsek wrote:
Rat in an ishtar.

MJD and cloak.

Don't stay at 0km from the warpin.

Have an alt falcon.

Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here).

Stop being a whining scrub.

Bubble all gates in system when ratting.


All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them?



I think inties are being slated to be immune to the bub.




meanwhile..... tears



But why? Are there no tools already at the hands of every nullseccer that already protects them? Intel channels? Hot drops?

I was under the impression that the moment any ships crosses into nullsec, 50 carriers show up and destroy it, and the killmail gets pasted in every billboard in the victims hometown and the ladies won't want to talk to him any more, and his dog will run away, and the earth will open up and swallow his house, and all that.

Who is worried and why?


Droneboats are slowest out of anoms, hence the interest. I'll play it, and if its unplayable, I'll whine about it like a good nullbear. Note that right now I can orbit drones at 2500 and still make it out of the anom, so this is a hell of a change.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#66 - 2013-10-31 01:45:48 UTC
I'll still rat in a sentry carrier, Big smile ill just fit a faction neut as well incase a little ceptor wants to tackle and have a cyno ready as well.Shocked
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-10-31 01:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Benny Ohu wrote:
How's this

[Stiletto, cyno stiletto]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

1MN Microwarpdrive II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Cynosural Field Generator I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I

Should have enough cargo even after the rebalance at Cyno IV. I have no experience - can the titan bridge some dudes in before the interceptor's killed? Mobile cyno jammer better be good, since inty gets a zillion warp speed and nullification

Null mining's at anoms, now, too, eh

Warp to gate warp to 100 at anom drop cheap t1 small bubble. Rat away.

Edit oh crap they're gonna be nullified, you're all screwed. Sniper alts in anoms may be a new in thing.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#68 - 2013-10-31 04:41:01 UTC
Dunno what drone boats your guys fly but 2-3x OTL + 2x target painters + sentry domi + interceptor @ 30 = Dead interceptor everytime.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#69 - 2013-10-31 06:52:03 UTC
Evangelina Nolen wrote:
Dunno what drone boats your guys fly but 2-3x OTL + 2x target painters + sentry domi + interceptor @ 30 = Dead interceptor everytime.


By the time you've locked the interceptor, the cyno has gone up and the gank squad has arrived. Sure, maybe you get lucky and the interceptor arrives as the drones were looking for a new target anyway. But don't count on that :)

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#70 - 2013-10-31 10:30:35 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec.


Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money.



Risk 'v' Reward my friend. It's what Eve's all about.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#71 - 2013-10-31 10:32:23 UTC
i have me sentrys alwasy close to me (rattle) , i live in null prolly know the ceptor 2 jumps out already and can micro jump 100km away , align to pos and w8 for the sucker

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
gobbybobby
Negative-Impact
#72 - 2013-10-31 11:04:02 UTC
I think many still will rat in there BS, it will take a very lucky interceptor pilot to jump into system and immediately warp to the belt/ anon you are running. Of course if you are not paying attention, and they have time to d-scan where you are, then as has been said, thats your fault!
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#73 - 2013-10-31 12:17:02 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Evangelina Nolen wrote:
Dunno what drone boats your guys fly but 2-3x OTL + 2x target painters + sentry domi + interceptor @ 30 = Dead interceptor everytime.


By the time you've locked the interceptor, the cyno has gone up and the gank squad has arrived. Sure, maybe you get lucky and the interceptor arrives as the drones were looking for a new target anyway. But don't count on that :)


SHHhhhh....I don't think most of them understand the concept and don't know about arazu.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#74 - 2013-10-31 12:30:15 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec.


Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money.



Risk 'v' Reward my friend. It's what Eve's all about.


Which is exactly why most people PVE in high sec where you never "need" more than one toon and where people have a really hard time screwing with you.
Alistone Malikite
F.U.N. Inc.
The Ancients.
#75 - 2013-11-21 02:16:52 UTC
A moderate sized group of inties really is a bigger threat to a ratting carrier now:

http://www.agony-unleashed.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=117752

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20551897
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#76 - 2013-11-21 02:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Just means solo ratters will need to fit countermeasures to interceptors.

Hell even medium neuts are enough and most ratting ships can fit a heavy easily.

Even if the interceptor guesses first try where you are and warps straight to you you have answers. If they take time to find you, you can get to a safe and don't even need countermeasures.



An interceptor pilot worth a sh*t will never be in range of a large neut much less a medium one. Also, warriors cannot fly as fast as an interceptor moving at max speed under mwd and therefore wont do anything to them.

The ceptor having to guess where you are might be a problem for them in a -1.0 system but in a -.4 or lower where there are only 2 f-hubs and a haven one dscan probably gives them better than a 50% chance of finding you.

There are countermeasures and yes carrier ratting is still possible, but I haven't seen anything effective listed here yet. This change is just classic fozzie at work.

Also, good job on adding new implants that boost the warp speeds of ships even more. Maybe it would have been a good idea to let the new warp mechanics hit TQ and see how/if they break the game before allowng people another method of warping EVEN FASTER?

Typical of CCP though, they will make something OP as hell and then just about the time everyone has trained into it the nerf hammer will fall.


Because carrier ratting in perfect security is a god given right, because sentries are supposed to be better than fighters at any task at all times and because no corporation with half a dozen carrier ratters can possibly be expected to put a cloaked alt a gate or two down the pipe to hear the gate being used and alt-tab to see who it is, nor can they read alliance intel channel to see if someone else knows what that person is flying.

I switched to a taranis last night to chase some zima's and by the time I'd warped to the prebookmarked signature the cloaked guy on the gate had already written a paragraph essay in russian about it and put it in local including the word taranis, and if I stopped using an example that was configured for frigate v frigate combat, and went over to one that was configured to get to the encounter faster, then I'd begin to be concerned about losing my ceptors to good pilots.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#77 - 2013-11-21 02:46:11 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec.


Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money.


Losing your carrier means you are making no money.

Yaay!!!!
Carebears Countdown 5-4-3-2-1
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-11-21 03:02:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Carebears Countdown 5-4-3-2-1
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Typical of CCP though, they will make something OP as hell and then just about the time everyone has trained into it the nerf hammer will fall.
Rofl, so true. Can't wait until I get Blasters V. =(
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-11-21 14:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugalbandak
Spankijs Omaristos wrote:
So with upcoming changes to warp speed/acceleration who is going to rat in a carrier? :D

Also, any sentry BS boats? Rattlers/Domis/Geddons??

How with these insta warps, one can rat in those battleships? -

I mean sentry drone boats can't really align, and now interceptors can just jump into system and be in random heaven/sanctum in 5 seconds... awesome eh!?


(Im actually excited about this, few days away to get into ceptors ^^)


ratting carriers make me laugh dear alliance m8 , so much trouble for little bit more isk

my rattle works fine with rubicon btw , interceptors are faster but still tey come up in local 2 jumps out.

edit: yeah easy solo 10/10 with mjd . wtf you need a carr for some silly rats

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2013-11-21 14:16:03 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec.


Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money.


Losing your carrier means you are making no money.

my point was not 'do not protect your carrier', think before posting