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Rubicon - Is Drone BS / Carrier ratting dead?
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Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#21 - 2013-10-30 11:46:41 UTC
Intel channels... You can easily see the guy 3-5 jumps out most of the time. They will never get a chance to snag you if you play smart. MJD, Target Breaker, Neuts, ECM drones, Pre-Alinged etc... etc... You have so many options to keep your PVE ships safe. The new warp speed changes honestly changes nothing except the fact you may need to be more vigilant. Carrier ratting is inefficient imo. A good fit pirate battleship (or the new marauders) is all you really need to fill your coffers. The only real benefit of a carrier is that you never need to worry about the rats breaking your tank. But considering most nowadays have more than one alt, spider tanking is a very powerful way to bridge the gap so to speak. And this adds the benefit of two BS's dealing DPS as well.

But that's just my opinion anyway.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#22 - 2013-10-30 11:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Just means solo ratters will need to fit countermeasures to interceptors.

Hell even medium neuts are enough and most ratting ships can fit a heavy easily.

Even if the interceptor guesses first try where you are and warps straight to you you have answers. If they take time to find you, you can get to a safe and don't even need countermeasures.



An interceptor pilot worth a sh*t will never be in range of a large neut much less a medium one. Also, warriors cannot fly as fast as an interceptor moving at max speed under mwd and therefore wont do anything to them.

The ceptor having to guess where you are might be a problem for them in a -1.0 system but in a -.4 or lower where there are only 2 f-hubs and a haven one dscan probably gives them better than a 50% chance of finding you.

There are countermeasures and yes carrier ratting is still possible, but I haven't seen anything effective listed here yet. This change is just classic fozzie at work.

Also, good job on adding new implants that boost the warp speeds of ships even more. Maybe it would have been a good idea to let the new warp mechanics hit TQ and see how/if they break the game before allowng people another method of warping EVEN FASTER?

Typical of CCP though, they will make something OP as hell and then just about the time everyone has trained into it the nerf hammer will fall.

A large neut has a 25km (EDITED) range. If you move out of that range you're moving out of your disrupt range (meaning you lose point and the ship you're holding warps off), unless you're overheating (T2 Disrupt taken into account). Also if you are only using a point the PVE ship you're holding can easily MJD out and warp off. If you are using a scram you are clearly in his neut range and you will be capped out in a single cycle and then he warps off since a smart ratter will be alinged while neuting you. And if they got a Target Breaker, even if your fleet arrives he could use it and bust all the locks then warp off (not guarantee, but possible). Play smart and you will never lose a PVE ship to PVP.
Helios Aquiness
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-10-30 12:06:18 UTC
Isnt the whole idea behind carrier ratting that the carrier is like a moble pos that sits cloaked off grid while the fighters follow a smaller alt ship into the belts?
Carebear? Im a brony, motherf***er.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#24 - 2013-10-30 12:07:45 UTC
Helios Aquiness wrote:
Isnt the whole idea behind carrier ratting that the carrier is like a moble pos that sits cloaked off grid while the fighters follow a smaller alt ship into the belts?


If you cloak you lose connection to your fighters. I don't think the person using them would have control anymore.
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-10-30 12:22:27 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Just means solo ratters will need to fit countermeasures to interceptors.

Hell even medium neuts are enough and most ratting ships can fit a heavy easily.

Even if the interceptor guesses first try where you are and warps straight to you you have answers. If they take time to find you, you can get to a safe and don't even need countermeasures.



An interceptor pilot worth a sh*t will never be in range of a large neut much less a medium one. Also, warriors cannot fly as fast as an interceptor moving at max speed under mwd and therefore wont do anything to them.

The ceptor having to guess where you are might be a problem for them in a -1.0 system but in a -.4 or lower where there are only 2 f-hubs and a haven one dscan probably gives them better than a 50% chance of finding you.

There are countermeasures and yes carrier ratting is still possible, but I haven't seen anything effective listed here yet. This change is just classic fozzie at work.

Also, good job on adding new implants that boost the warp speeds of ships even more. Maybe it would have been a good idea to let the new warp mechanics hit TQ and see how/if they break the game before allowng people another method of warping EVEN FASTER?

Typical of CCP though, they will make something OP as hell and then just about the time everyone has trained into it the nerf hammer will fall.

A large neut has a 25km (EDITED) range. If you move out of that range you're moving out of your disrupt range (meaning you lose point and the ship you're holding warps off), unless you're overheating (T2 Disrupt taken into account). Also if you are only using a point the PVE ship you're holding can easily MJD out and warp off. If you are using a scram you are clearly in his neut range and you will be capped out in a single cycle and then he warps off since a smart ratter will be alinged while neuting you. And if they got a Target Breaker, even if your fleet arrives he could use it and bust all the locks then warp off (not guarantee, but possible). Play smart and you will never lose a PVE ship to PVP.


Currently a rubicon stiletto has a 30km T2 point, 36km overheated as well as a 36.88km lock range with perfect skills, so they do have the lock range to take advantage of that without any sebos.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#26 - 2013-10-30 12:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
My Little Pyongyang wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Just means solo ratters will need to fit countermeasures to interceptors.

Hell even medium neuts are enough and most ratting ships can fit a heavy easily.

Even if the interceptor guesses first try where you are and warps straight to you you have answers. If they take time to find you, you can get to a safe and don't even need countermeasures.



An interceptor pilot worth a sh*t will never be in range of a large neut much less a medium one. Also, warriors cannot fly as fast as an interceptor moving at max speed under mwd and therefore wont do anything to them.

The ceptor having to guess where you are might be a problem for them in a -1.0 system but in a -.4 or lower where there are only 2 f-hubs and a haven one dscan probably gives them better than a 50% chance of finding you.

There are countermeasures and yes carrier ratting is still possible, but I haven't seen anything effective listed here yet. This change is just classic fozzie at work.

Also, good job on adding new implants that boost the warp speeds of ships even more. Maybe it would have been a good idea to let the new warp mechanics hit TQ and see how/if they break the game before allowng people another method of warping EVEN FASTER?

Typical of CCP though, they will make something OP as hell and then just about the time everyone has trained into it the nerf hammer will fall.

A large neut has a 25km (EDITED) range. If you move out of that range you're moving out of your disrupt range (meaning you lose point and the ship you're holding warps off), unless you're overheating (T2 Disrupt taken into account). Also if you are only using a point the PVE ship you're holding can easily MJD out and warp off. If you are using a scram you are clearly in his neut range and you will be capped out in a single cycle and then he warps off since a smart ratter will be alinged while neuting you. And if they got a Target Breaker, even if your fleet arrives he could use it and bust all the locks then warp off (not guarantee, but possible). Play smart and you will never lose a PVE ship to PVP.


Currently a rubicon stiletto has a 30km T2 point, 36km overheated as well as a 36.88km lock range with perfect skills, so they do have the lock range to take advantage of that without any sebos.

OK thats all fine and good, but remember... you're pointing only. Meaning if this PVE ship is equipped with a MJD he can easily align then MJD out and warp off. Only a scram stops a MJD and if your doing that then you're capable of being neuted. And you will be neuted out in a single cycle.
Spankijs Omaristos
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-10-30 12:27:14 UTC
Helios Aquiness wrote:
Isnt the whole idea behind carrier ratting that the carrier is like a moble pos that sits cloaked off grid while the fighters follow a smaller alt ship into the belts?


Asigning fighters sucks so bad that I cant see why would anyone use that for ratting.
Fighters are slow as hell and are effective only against BS size rats.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#28 - 2013-10-30 12:28:48 UTC
Spankijs Omaristos wrote:
Helios Aquiness wrote:
Isnt the whole idea behind carrier ratting that the carrier is like a moble pos that sits cloaked off grid while the fighters follow a smaller alt ship into the belts?


Asigning fighters sucks so bad that I cant see why would anyone use that for ratting.
Fighters are slow as hell and are effective only against BS size rats.

Yes this I agree with. I think most carrier ratters use sentries with a full rack of drone control rigs in the highs.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#29 - 2013-10-30 12:44:56 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
[q

The ceptor having to guess where you are might be a problem for them in a -1.0 system but in a -.4 or lower where there are only 2 f-hubs and a haven one dscan probably gives them better than a 50% chance of finding you.


Forsaken Rally points 4tw!

Big smile
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2013-10-30 12:49:27 UTC
Spankijs Omaristos wrote:
Helios Aquiness wrote:
Isnt the whole idea behind carrier ratting that the carrier is like a moble pos that sits cloaked off grid while the fighters follow a smaller alt ship into the belts?


Asigning fighters sucks so bad that I cant see why would anyone use that for ratting.
Fighters are slow as hell and are effective only against BS size rats.
'

Many an anom farmer doesn't know this (that ratting with assigned fighters isn't great because of the fighters travel time and really crappy damage application), I still see people sitting carriers outside pos shields to do this.

If they'd do a simple test (1 hour with fighters, one hour with regular drones or no drones at all) they'd realize that that off grid carrier assigning fighters makes way less isk than the same toon in a much cheaper noctis sweeping up loot and salvage after the site is done. Ah well more isk for me lol.
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs
Out of the Blue.
#31 - 2013-10-30 13:03:08 UTC
What most of you guys seem to be neglecting is the fact that a ratting carrier is never at 0 in the anom and usually 100km off. Now if you are 100km off in line with a gate then you deserve to die.

Considering most tackle wont warp to an anom at 0 either means that as well as the 5-10 seconds it takes to get to the anom (assuming they pick the right one) you will still have an additional 10 seconds or so before the f*cker is in point range

Christ, server lag between the ceptor landing in local and them actually loading grid, opening the scanner, locating the anoms and probably using dscan should give you another 5 seconds if not more before he starts warping.

You have easily got 30 seconds to align to a pos and get out.

If you cant manage that then chin up.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-10-30 13:05:57 UTC
Setsune Rin wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
Ratting with one carrier is stupidly risky as is.

But those people who are serious about carrier ratting don't rely on not getting caught, they rely on having cynos on each of their carriers and being able to spidertank the damage output of your average blops drop.


You what now?




typical forum alt, big mouth but no practical knowledge

carrier ratting is just a high efficiency bet that you won't get killed before you make enough isk to make it worth it
they're fit for max damage, never a cyno

just like all other ratting ships


While some people do rat with carriers in the way Vera suggests it's a pretty rare thing and the people who tend to do that are multiboxers.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-10-30 13:07:56 UTC
Rat in an ishtar.

MJD and cloak.

Don't stay at 0km from the warpin.

Have an alt falcon.

Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here).

Stop being a whining scrub.

Bubble all gates in system when ratting.


All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them?
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
#34 - 2013-10-30 13:32:52 UTC
Use sentry Geddon for ratting with couple heavy neuts.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#35 - 2013-10-30 14:06:16 UTC
Borsek wrote:
Rat in an ishtar.

MJD and cloak.

Don't stay at 0km from the warpin.

Have an alt falcon.

Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here).

Stop being a whining scrub.

Bubble all gates in system when ratting.


All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them?


Why not?...because none of that makes any sense and you have no idea what you're talking about. Bubble the gates?...uh hunny they are nullified do you know what that means?
Spankijs Omaristos
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-10-30 14:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Spankijs Omaristos
Borsek wrote:
Rat in an ishtar.

MJD and cloak.

Don't stay at 0km from the warpin.

Have an alt falcon.

Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here).

Stop being a whining scrub.

Bubble all gates in system when ratting.


All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them?


Please, do not post if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Rat in an ishtar. - This thread is to discuss about ratting in Battleships/Carriers after Rubicon, not " suggest alternative ships thread"

MJD and cloak. - Cloak? Really? You cant use it if targeted (In this case by rats) And I want to see you patience for targeting Frigs/crusers.

Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. - Just wtf is this? :D

Have an alt falcon. - Fancy buying one for everyone?

Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). - Right, thats why the post is here, to discuss it.

Stop being a whining scrub. - No one here is whining, this is just a discussion/question thread.

Bubble all gates in system when ratting. - Please, BIOMASS yourself.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#37 - 2013-10-30 14:17:49 UTC
Isn't a BS also at full speed when exiting a jump? If so, I would think that passively (stopped) aligning to a celestial (if you can find one close to your plane) would afford you the MJD jump plus being full speed aligned when you exit the jump.

Profit favors the prepared
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-10-30 14:28:27 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Isn't a BS also at full speed when exiting a jump? If so, I would think that passively (stopped) aligning to a celestial (if you can find one close to your plane) would afford you the MJD jump plus being full speed aligned when you exit the jump.

Only if at full speed when jumping.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#39 - 2013-10-30 14:30:22 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
[q

The ceptor having to guess where you are might be a problem for them in a -1.0 system but in a -.4 or lower where there are only 2 f-hubs and a haven one dscan probably gives them better than a 50% chance of finding you.



Its always a 100% chance as you can narrow down the location of ships in anoms using the solar system map and dscan.
You just need practice to be fast.

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Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#40 - 2013-10-30 14:42:08 UTC
yep. this is part of the reason i've sold off my huge carrier stock.