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Dear NAGA, I am disturbed by your lack of cruise missiles
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Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-11-05 14:06:42 UTC
You're entitled to your opinion but I don't think a long range missile platform was what they had in mind when they designed the ship.
Boris Ginnungagap
Doomheim
#62 - 2011-11-05 15:41:52 UTC
Patri Andari wrote:
The end results are not in. The iteration is not final. I know this, but why the hell would CCP even consider pre-nerfing only one of the four new tier 3 battle cruisers to only being able to use the short ranged version of its weapon systems?

Imagine the Tornado able to equip 8 Auto cannons but only 3-4 artys. Imagine the Talos being able to fit eight blasters but only4-5 rails. This would never stand. Yet they consider a NAGA that can ONLY field a full compliment torpedos but not a full compliment of cruise missiles an acceptable result?

Also, do not forget the fact that T2 ammo was changed recently so that most turret ship penalties were eliminated, not sot when it comes to T2 missiles in each class. They still either slow your ship (Precision or Javelin) or cause signature bloom (Rage or Fury).

This is not BALANCE!

I watch EVE alliance tournaments and listen to commentators and EVE STAFF degrade use of Caldari missile ships. They hate the Drake. They degrade the Tengu. It makes me wonder. Why did they even create the race at all if it so embarrasses them?

Eliminate T2 missile ammo ship penalties and give the NAGA 8x Cruise missiles NAO! or just kill Caldari already

Why no for cruise launchers?

Their fitting costs less than siege launchers...

Didin't CCP fix the missile lag already?

I think this is wrong way to prevent from having gazillion Nagas with cruise missiles in everyones fleet. Wrong, way.
Boris Ginnungagap
Doomheim
#63 - 2011-11-05 15:43:11 UTC
Masamune Dekoro wrote:
You're entitled to your opinion but I don't think a long range missile platform was what they had in mind when they designed the ship.

But it's cool for them to fit long range guns, railguns?
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#64 - 2011-11-05 17:57:08 UTC
Boris Ginnungagap wrote:
Masamune Dekoro wrote:
You're entitled to your opinion but I don't think a long range missile platform was what they had in mind when they designed the ship.

But it's cool for them to fit long range guns, railguns?



My long range weapons (rails) good sir are doing 700DPS at optimal with antimatter -45km in my case and for your personal education- while the naga can send 8 torps at over 60km and do full dmg, I admit haven't calculated the exact dps but at the first draw I'd say for about or + 1k dps.

Again, trade your torps for my rails please, I'd love the Talos to be able to fit Torps and would most probably fly it, while with hybrids has it stands right now will not even buy it but sure will have at least one Naga and several Tornados in my hangar.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#65 - 2011-11-05 18:20:35 UTC
I'm literally waiting to see how much worse this ship can get as they iterate.

At this point it _seems_ like there is nowhere to go but up. We shall see.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#66 - 2011-11-06 16:30:17 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
Quote:
My long range weapons (rails) good sir are doing 700DPS at optimal with antimatter -45km in my case and for your personal education- while the naga can send 8 torps at over 60km and do full dmg, I admit haven't calculated the exact dps but at the first draw I'd say for about or + 1k dps.

Again, trade your torps for my rails please, I'd love the Talos to be able to fit Torps and would most probably fly it, while with hybrids has it stands right now will not even buy it but sure will have at least one Naga and several Tornados in my hangar.


This is so wrong in any way possible. Have you never seen a giant light bubble heading your way that any ship < battleship can simply outrun at any speed >200m/s?
If you can hit a ceptor with a torpedo, I would agree but in real life even a battlecruiser without any propulsion mod can simply fly away from torpedos.
To hit anything at 60km with a torpedo that is moving is just not or very little possible.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Soporo
#67 - 2011-11-06 16:34:35 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Boris Ginnungagap wrote:
Masamune Dekoro wrote:
You're entitled to your opinion but I don't think a long range missile platform was what they had in mind when they designed the ship.

But it's cool for them to fit long range guns, railguns?



My long range weapons (rails) good sir are doing 700DPS at optimal with antimatter -45km in my case and for your personal education- while the naga can send 8 torps at over 60km and do full dmg, I admit haven't calculated the exact dps but at the first draw I'd say for about or + 1k dps.

Again, trade your torps for my rails please, I'd love the Talos to be able to fit Torps and would most probably fly it, while with hybrids has it stands right now will not even buy it but sure will have at least one Naga and several Tornados in my hangar.


Quote:
while the naga can send 8 torps at over 60km and do full dmg


Pray tell how do you achieve full damage from torps on that ship versus BC and BS, much less AB'ing cruisers like the Tornado apparently can?

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#68 - 2011-11-06 16:41:22 UTC
Soporo wrote:


Quote:
while the naga can send 8 torps at over 60km and do full dmg


Pray tell how do you achieve full damage from torps on that ship versus BC and BS, much less AB'ing cruisers like the Tornado apparently can?


Not likely to get full damage on a bs, for that matter.
Soporo
#69 - 2011-11-06 17:51:56 UTC
When the "tests" are all said and done I will be very interested to see a few things:

1) Nagas self produced real applied damage to various ship classes in a pvp environment (ie: moving targets) using the most usefull pvp ammunition (read: Javelins or Navy Torps) in comparrison to the other tier 3's true dps in similar circumstances.

2) The ridiculous hoops the ship will have to jump through fitting wise (rigors/flares/painters) using Torps in order to even approach the utility of the other tier 3's in damage application. In other words, a fitting and bonus comparison with rigs, painters,TE's, TC's etc in mind. If you talk webs here, you've lost your mind, as we're forced back into web range which negates any range bonii. Ibft get a tackler along, the other don't / won't need it, I bet.

Torps require ridiculously hi bonii similar to the ones below ANDsignificant midslot and rig space in order to be effective.
Do the other races BS weapons have these problems, not to mention delayed damage? No.

Stealth Bomber
50% bonus to torpedo explosion velocity
50% bonus to torpedo flight time
100% bonus to torpedo velocity

Golem
10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity per level
5% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per level
7.5% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level

And this is before the required 2 Painters, not to mention the Rigors.

Missile tips: Anyone that calculates Rage torps outside of structures or maybe Caps is just trolling, has a gang of Huggins painting and webbing for them or just isnt paying attention. Anyone that takes paper missile range as true range doesnt know missiles. Shooting missiles 60 km? Knock off 5 km for jinks and jives minimum. Against fast targets? Pray your flight time and speed dont run out before they catch him.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#70 - 2011-11-06 18:08:14 UTC
BUT THE EFT NUMBERS?

/downs