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Dear NAGA, I am disturbed by your lack of cruise missiles
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#1 - 2011-11-02 22:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Patri Andari
The end results are not in. The iteration is not final. I know this, but why the hell would CCP even consider pre-nerfing only one of the four new tier 3 battle cruisers to only being able to use the short ranged version of its weapon systems?

Imagine the Tornado able to equip 8 Auto cannons but only 3-4 artys. Imagine the Talos being able to fit eight blasters but only4-5 rails. This would never stand. Yet they consider a NAGA that can ONLY field a full compliment torpedos but not a full compliment of cruise missiles an acceptable result?

Also, do not forget the fact that T2 ammo was changed recently so that most turret ship penalties were eliminated, not sot when it comes to T2 missiles in each class. They still either slow your ship (Precision or Javelin) or cause signature bloom (Rage or Fury).

This is not BALANCE!

I watch EVE alliance tournaments and listen to commentators and EVE STAFF degrade use of Caldari missile ships. They hate the Drake. They degrade the Tengu. It makes me wonder. Why did they even create the race at all if it so embarrasses them?

Eliminate T2 missile ammo ship penalties and give the NAGA 8x Cruise missiles NAO! or just kill Caldari already

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-11-02 22:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
The Naga's power comes from the fact it can use 8 torpedo launchers, 8 railguns, or 8 blasters, giving it a 4th weapon would have unfair to the other ships that only get racial guns.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-11-02 22:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Patri Andari wrote:
The end results are not in. The iteration is not final. I know this, but why the hell would CCP even consider pre-nerfing only one of the four new tier 3 battle cruisers to only being able to use the short ranged version of its weapon systems?

Imagine the Tornado able to equip 8 Auto cannons but only 3-4 artys. Imagine the Talos being able to fit eight blasters but only4-5 rails. This would never stand. Yet they consider a NAGA that can ONLY field a full compliment torpedos but not a full compliment of cruise missiles an acceptable result?

Also, do not forget the fact that T2 ammo was changed recently so that most turret ship penalties were eliminated, not sot when it comes to T2 missiles in each class. They still either slow your ship (Precision or Javelin) or cause signature bloom (Rage short or long).

This is not BALANCE!

I watch EVE alliance tournaments and listen to commentators and EVE STAFF degrade use of Caldari missile ships. They hate the Drake. They degrade the Tengu. It makes me wonder. Why did they even create the race at all if it so embarrasses them?

Eliminate T2 missile ammo ship penalties and give the NAGA 8x Cruise missiles NAO! or just kill Caldari already


With speed bonus and your skills you should be able to shoot your torps around 60km, excuse me for such poor distance indeed.

Wanna trade with my blasters range?

EDIT: ho and if you look closer, T2 missiles are getting rid of ALL penalties. This is of course if the SISI changes are applied to TQ.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#4 - 2011-11-02 22:58:18 UTC
To be fair the reason people hate the drake and the tengu so much isn't that they're bad, it's that they've overpowered and excel in too many different areas (IIRC the drake is the most commonly flown combat ship in the game, being used more than than the other top 10 combined)

I will agree though that the cruise missile thing does seem a tad odd. Though with a missile speed bonus it would be a tad imbalanced.
Goose99
#5 - 2011-11-02 23:04:15 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The Naga's power comes from the fact it can use 8 torpedo launchers, 8 railguns, or 8 blasters, giving it a 4th weapon would have unfair to the other ships that only get racial guns.


It fails as blaster platform, when there's the Talos. Railguns fail on anything. So those don't count. Not all bonuses are equal. You might as well give it mining bonus and call it balanced. How about a trade? Cruise bonus for both railgun and blaster bonus.Cool
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#6 - 2011-11-02 23:04:29 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The Naga's power comes from the fact it can use 8 torpedo launchers, 8 railguns, or 8 blasters, giving it a 4th weapon would have unfair to the other ships that only get racial guns.


By thus logic it would be equally okay to give the NAGA the ability to field 8 torpedo launchers, 8 cruise launchers or 8 railguns but no blasters. Ergo no fourth weapon. In fact it would make more sense, although stupid, random, and imbalanced.

It is a Caldari ship. They use missiles primarily, you know. No?


Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-11-02 23:08:31 UTC
Can you imagine if they gave the Talos a short range module bonus, such as web strength, to help it use blasters but omitted tracking bonus to help it use rails?

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
MichaelWest
The Athenaeum
#8 - 2011-11-02 23:09:50 UTC
From what I have heard people saying is its either going to stay torps or hybrids not both. In all honest I hope it stays with hybrids and has a good bonus for rails.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-11-02 23:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Cambarus wrote:
I will agree though that the cruise missile thing does seem a tad odd. Though with a missile speed bonus it would be a tad imbalanced.


Well you would see those ships shooting close from grid limit, the time ceptors or probe could do stuff about this half of the enemy fleet would be decimated.

Just an opinion, I'm most probably wrong.

EDIT: with such high flight time if you add 10% speed bonus your cruise missiles would fly for "x" sec at almost/over 8000m/s
When torps with a good compromise fit/Tank dps can already easily blow stuff at 60km I think it's a good compromise vs other guns and same type BC.

Now this said, imagine the consequences introducing some ship being able to apply/one shot cruiser size and apply tremendous dmg to capital size "from there" when their purpose is clearly not to blow small stuff.
Alara IonStorm
#10 - 2011-11-02 23:17:34 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
(IIRC the drake is the most commonly flown combat ship in the game, being used more than than the other top 10 combined)

Reality Disagree's with you.

1 Drake 6444
2 Hurricane 6038
3 Abaddon 2840
4 Zealot 2106
5 Armageddon 1996
6 Dramiel 1596
7 Tempest 1332
8 Cynabal 1291
9 Sabre 1087
10 Rapier 951
11 Tengu 933
12 Vagabond 910
13 Scimitar 865
14 Harbinger 842
15 Manticore 794
16 Nyx 721
17 Rifter 704
18 Hound 681
19 Machariel 636
20 Loki 627

Monitoring the list the Drake has never had more then twice as much as the next best ship the Hurricane. The list is low because EVEkill Server Issues means a new 30 Day list started October 31. The day before the Drake had 175000 while the Cane a Small Gang Ship had 125000 and the Abbadon in the area of 80000.

Drake is good but not 10X as good.
Alara IonStorm
#11 - 2011-11-02 23:18:41 UTC
I looked into the Eyes of there so called Rail Buff.

Give us Cruise Missiles.
Borun Tal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-02 23:27:21 UTC
Patri Andari wrote:
The end results are not in. The iteration is not final. I know this, but why the hell would CCP even consider pre-nerfing only one of the four new tier 3 battle cruisers to only being able to use the short ranged version of its weapon systems?


Personally, I think they didn't realized they were building the perfect gank wagons when they first introduced them, and are now back-tracking quickly in expectation of the carebear whines that are inevitable.
Goose99
#13 - 2011-11-02 23:32:14 UTC
Borun Tal wrote:
Patri Andari wrote:
The end results are not in. The iteration is not final. I know this, but why the hell would CCP even consider pre-nerfing only one of the four new tier 3 battle cruisers to only being able to use the short ranged version of its weapon systems?


Personally, I think they didn't realized they were building the perfect gank wagons when they first introduced them, and are now back-tracking quickly in expectation of the carebear whines that are inevitable.


That only applies to Tornado, and to a far lesser degree, Talos.
Baraka Saibot
Wobbling Frog Inc
#14 - 2011-11-02 23:44:36 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:


16 Nyx 721
17 Rifter 704



Hmm...
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-11-02 23:52:17 UTC
Dear Naga, I am disturbed by your lack of coherent use.
Goose99
#16 - 2011-11-02 23:58:06 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Dear Naga, I am disturbed by your lack of coherent use.


It's like split weapon system for extra fail.Cool
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#17 - 2011-11-03 00:02:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Soon Shin
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
(IIRC the drake is the most commonly flown combat ship in the game, being used more than than the other top 10 combined)

Reality Disagree's with you.

1 Drake 6444
2 Hurricane 6038
3 Abaddon 2840
4 Zealot 2106
5 Armageddon 1996
6 Dramiel 1596
7 Tempest 1332
8 Cynabal 1291
9 Sabre 1087
10 Rapier 951
11 Tengu 933
12 Vagabond 910
13 Scimitar 865
14 Harbinger 842
15 Manticore 794
16 Nyx 721
17 Rifter 704
18 Hound 681
19 Machariel 636
20 Loki 627

Monitoring the list the Drake has never had more then twice as much as the next best ship the Hurricane. The list is low because EVEkill Server Issues means a new 30 Day list started October 31. The day before the Drake had 175000 while the Cane a Small Gang Ship had 125000 and the Abbadon in the area of 80000.

Drake is good but not 10X as good.



Lol No gallente ships other than the Nyx. And no, Angel ships do not count. this clearly shows that Gallente subcaps pretty much suck.

CCP is now making the SAME GODDAMN MISTAKE with the Talos, they're trying that make it perform a role that the weapon and race philosophy does NOT WORK WITH.

CCP wants to make a glass cannon ships can are meant to engage at long ranges, but the problem is that Gallente is a race that uses ******* Blasters. Blaster are ****, they have 3-5 times less range, but only compensate for it by having 5-10% more dps. That is a ****** TRADEOFF! Which is the damn reason why no one wants to use ******* Blasters.

People argue about getting someone to tackle, well its a **** REASON. Having a tackler ships means a loss of DPS, A Blaster ship needs to have enough DPS to compensate for that. The problem is that it frikkin does not !

The Talos makes it so it gets rid of needing a tackler with its webbing bonus and speed, and therefore makes it a worthwhile ship! But not anymore!

You're just better off flying a Oracle or a Tornado, which do nearly as much DPS but have SUPERIOR Range which is important for Tier 3 BC.

If you're flying a gang the Talos is not as useful as an Oracle or a Tornado which are useful in more situations due to having more range.
Serin Shadowstalker
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-11-03 00:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Serin Shadowstalker
I'm disturbed much more by the loss of a low slot, tracking and explosion velocity bonus then then its inability to use cruise launchers in the last revision. I was looking forward to having a split weapon boat that actually had double bonus to each system and enough lows to support it.

If they keep it at 3 lows i hope they make it double bonus torps.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#19 - 2011-11-03 00:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Patri Andari
Tanya Powers wrote:

EDIT: ho and if you look closer, T2 missiles are getting rid of ALL penalties. This is of course if the SISI changes are applied to TQ.


Sorry for my failure at nerdfu, but I do not follow SISI as well as some.

I do however follow Devblogs. The most recent one on T2 ammo does not mention T2 missile ammo at all. One might think that the best place to reveal such a change, but that would be too much like CCP doing the right thing.

Pardon me while I hold my breath.

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Goose99
#20 - 2011-11-03 00:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Patri Andari wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:

EDIT: ho and if you look closer, T2 missiles are getting rid of ALL penalties. This is of course if the SISI changes are applied to TQ.


Sorry for my failure at nerdfu, but I do not follow SIS as well as some.

I do however follow Devblogs. The most recent one on T2 ammo does not mention T2 missile ammo at all. One might think that the best place to reveal such a change, but that would be too much like CCP doing the right thing.

Pardon me while I hold my breath.



The fury missile "penalty" he was talking about is the small sig bloom on your own sig. The real penalty that matters, higher explosion radius and lower speed/range, did not change. In other words, it's a flat lie.Cool
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