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Intermittant failure.

Author
Evil Incarn8
Evil's League of Evil
#1 - 2013-10-29 18:22:13 UTC
Hi guys,

I have a computer related problem, and this forum caters to the largest collection of computer types that I know, so I am hoping you can help me.

I have an issue with my PC that I am trying to identify, I believe it to either be a hardware failure or limitation due to its tendencies to occour only during specific activities.

Basically what I get is that when playing certain games, not all games, I will get a total loss of video signal. On the affected titles after about 20-60 minutes my screen will go black and display a "no signal" message, yet the games sound will continue for another 5-10 seconds before it too crashes and I have to reset the PC.

This will happen on World of Tanks, the original Crysis, Saints row 3 (in dx 9 or 10 versions), as well as How to Survive (a zombie apocalypse). Wheras it has never happened on EvE, Empire/Napoleon Total War, any of the 3 Mass Effects no matter how long they are played.

My PC is getting on for 4 years old now and I had assumed it was just lack of performance, however Saints still failed on the old dx9 mode so that shouldn't have been pushing the graphics capability.

My system;
AMD Phenom II 550 black dual core 3.1GHz
4 Gb RAM
Radeon 4870 1Gb (I know this is only dx 10.1 capable)
All of the titles are running off of an SSD, most via Steam which I have never had problems with.
Win 7

I know that I am due an updated system, however I would like to know if any of my current hardware is failing or that I am simply asking too much of it. I initially thought it was an over temperature thing due to the time it took to kick in, but why would that not apply in Empire after many hours?
Also the direct X issue, I understand that the most recent games will require dx 11, and I would fully expect to fail at running them, but why should my system fail when running a game on dx9?

Any help and or advice will be much appreciated.
Evil.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2 - 2013-10-29 18:30:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Very much sounds as a heat/cooling issue.

Download, install and run this software:

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

If your GFX card is above 85º C at any point, you're experiencing cooling issues, and if it's above 90º C, that's what is shutting it down once it hits 95-98º C. A dirty, stuck or broken fan are the most usual causes.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Rhatar Khurin
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-10-29 18:34:09 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Very much sounds as a heat/cooling issue.

Download, install and run this software:

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

If your GFX card is above 85º C at any point, you're experiencing cooling issues, and if it's above 90º C, that's what is shutting it down once it hits 95-98º C. A dirty, stuck or broken fan are the most usual causes.


I agree with this diagnosis too
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#4 - 2013-10-29 18:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Yes. Heat issues indeed. Happened to me about 3 years ago.

If not corrected, you will pretty much have an unbootable machine one morning. I did.

ed: when purchasing a new video card, check it's wattage requirements against what your power supply has. You may need a higher wattage supply. I had to do that too.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Evil Incarn8
Evil's League of Evil
#5 - 2013-10-29 18:57:51 UTC
If it is heat, why is it only occouring on specific titles? surely if one title can overheat in 30 minutes then another would get there after 3-4 hours?
Alpheias
Farmhouse.
Fraternity.
#6 - 2013-10-29 19:02:47 UTC
Are you running it through HDMI or one of the DVI connectors?

Also, download MSI Afterburner as it is more reliable than speedfan and get back to me with temperatures.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Kyseth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-10-29 19:10:43 UTC
Evil Incarn8 wrote:
If it is heat, why is it only occouring on specific titles? surely if one title can overheat in 30 minutes then another would get there after 3-4 hours?


It could depend on how a particular title taxes the GPU. Other factors could be where the computer is sitting (on the floor, in a cabinet, up high, etc) as well as the ambient temperature in the room at the time. These are probably just secondary factors, but could contribute.

I had this same issue before on similar hardware. I would first check cooling. Next, I would check drivers and power supply. This is most likely cooling though.
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#8 - 2013-10-29 19:11:36 UTC
Evil Incarn8 wrote:
If it is heat, why is it only occouring on specific titles? surely if one title can overheat in 30 minutes then another would get there after 3-4 hours?


Different titles are more graphically intensive than others.

I noticed you said Eve has not crashed but have you ran Eve in the captains quarters yet?
Alpheias
Farmhouse.
Fraternity.
#9 - 2013-10-29 19:13:04 UTC
Kyseth wrote:
[quote=Evil Incarn8]

I had this same issue before on similar hardware. I would first check cooling. Next, I would check drivers and power supply. This is most likely cooling though.


Not necessarily. Could be something so simple as loose cables.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-10-29 19:24:13 UTC
Yeah, sounds like GPU problems rather than hard drive.

If your hard drive goes, the computer just seems to slow down a lot at first, then you start getting some very strange errors (something like "Microsoft Windows cannot respond) before everything just freezes and you have to boot the PC. At this point, if you're lucky, your operating system will still load and you may be able to save some of your data.

Your screen probably won't go black if it's the hard drive. You'll still see everything pretty much normally but nothing will load successfully.

My hard drive died a few months ago so I should know.
Evil Incarn8
Evil's League of Evil
#11 - 2013-10-29 19:25:24 UTC
[Alpheias]

My graphics card only has a pair of DVI, I am using one of those to connect.
Current temperatures, PC has been on for about an hour, nothing taxing, internet etc,
CPU - 45C
GPU - 62C

[Commissar Kate]

Ohh yes Captains Quarters... I forgot about that, I disabled it long ago, yes that kills it faster than a shot to the head.

Matokin Lemant
#12 - 2013-10-29 19:35:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Matokin Lemant
Evil Incarn8 wrote:
[Alpheias]

My graphics card only has a pair of DVI, I am using one of those to connect.
Current temperatures, PC has been on for about an hour, nothing taxing, internet etc,
CPU - 45C
GPU - 62C

[Commissar Kate]

Ohh yes Captains Quarters... I forgot about that, I disabled it long ago, yes that kills it faster than a shot to the head.




Like others have said its a heat issue.

The GPU temps are way to high for just idling (doing nothing) check to see if the fan is still spinning on your GPU, if it is you can try going into your AMD Vision control centre (right click on your desk top) and enable graphics over drive and manually throttle up the fan.

If that dont help you may want to start looking at getting a new card (I dont think you will be able to find a aftermarket cooler for that one now) the 7900 series are pretty cheap now.

I have a 7950 and my idling temps are 34C on my GPU

This is my GPU http://products.xfxforce.com/en-us/Graphics_Cards/AMD_Radeon%E2%84%A2_HD_7950/FX-795A-TNFC

EDIT: Your CPU temps are pretty warm as well for "just idling" you may want to think of getting a good after market cooler and throwing on there. I dont know if your using stock cooling or not but I would recommend the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO its cheep and does a good job at cooling.
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#13 - 2013-10-29 19:35:57 UTC
Evil Incarn8 wrote:
[Alpheias]

My graphics card only has a pair of DVI, I am using one of those to connect.
Current temperatures, PC has been on for about an hour, nothing taxing, internet etc,
CPU - 45C
GPU - 62C

[Commissar Kate]

Ohh yes Captains Quarters... I forgot about that, I disabled it long ago, yes that kills it faster than a shot to the head.




Seems a bit hot on idle, What's your ambient temp?

I have about 30c on the GPU at idle with 24.5c ambient.
My CPU die temp is broken so I can't help with a comparison there.
Bellanea Rajanir
Obolka Kin
#14 - 2013-10-29 19:39:53 UTC
Program called Furmark will bake it, it will give GPU something to think of. If your computer will crash when you will run the test, its GPU.

It was a day when the forum post became sentient

Alpheias
Farmhouse.
Fraternity.
#15 - 2013-10-29 19:41:11 UTC
Evil Incarn8 wrote:
[Alpheias]

My graphics card only has a pair of DVI, I am using one of those to connect.
Current temperatures, PC has been on for about an hour, nothing taxing, internet etc,
CPU - 45C
GPU - 62C


I think you should try two things; remove the graphics card and clean it from dust with a can of compressed air and secondly, try the second DVI port.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Rhatar Khurin
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-10-29 19:51:13 UTC
i had a GPU that overheated once (a hair had got wrapped around the fan) and the first thing i noticed was before it shut down you could noticed textures going loopy and a distinct smell of the card being cooked
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#17 - 2013-10-29 20:01:49 UTC
Oh while cleaning out the entire computer don't forget to blow out the power supply as those can also overheat.

Also try to hold the fans in place while blowing out the heatsinks. Just a personal thing I do to avoid bearing damage.
Evil Incarn8
Evil's League of Evil
#18 - 2013-10-29 20:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Evil Incarn8
[Matokin Lemant]

I have manually put the GPU fan speed to 100%, the temperature has dropped to 57-58C.
All the other fans in the case are visibly working, 2 large case fans, GPU, CPU and PSU.

As I said I am overdue an update, the 7850/7870 was what I was looking at.
As for the 7950 being cheap, I looked yours up, XFX 7950 £225, on offer @ £176 still not what I call cheap.


[Commissar Kate]

Ambient is around 17-18C, judging by my heating kicking in at 16... and it hasn't yet.
Holding the fans yes, although I thought it was for the fact that a motor being driven around becomes a turbine generator, putting current into the system?

[Rhatar Khurin]

I havent noticed any graphical glitching before a shutdown, it goes from working, and sounding/smelling, normal, to off in a fraction of a second.

I will give it all a good cleanout, and swap over the DVI port, are there any other ideas/things I should check? you have all been a great help so far, thankyou.
Rhatar Khurin
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-10-29 20:40:34 UTC
Hmm.. apart from updating drivers etc i am not sure what else it might be.
Kyseth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-10-29 20:48:34 UTC
Could also try running with the case open (and maybe even getting an external fan to blow across the system/GPU). Make sure the system has enough air flow (i.e. not at the back of an enclosed cabinet or under your desk in a small port for your feet).

I think drivers would be the next thing to try if you don't resolve the issues with a cooling fix. That said, when I had my problem with my ATI 48XX, I ended up getting a new video card as resolving the cooling/driver issue only solved the problem for a time.
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