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[Request] Review of possible New Order EULA Breach

First post
Author
oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-26 17:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: oOReikaOo Michiko
I've debated writing this up for a while now because anyone can see the kind of backlash im going to receive for doing so, but some topics are too important to be ignored.

In 2012 im sure you all remember there was an incident involving player on player harassment that tested the bounds of how far the quote "This is EVE" goes. Im referring of course to the Mittani incident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Ki91U-mBE#t=3869.

I believe there is another player who routinely has stepped up their harassment to the point where it borders the same level, this player is Erotica 1 and her known associates the New Order. I would like to state that the harassment described does NOT in ANY way refer to the miner bumping/suicide ganking of this group. I am specifically referring to the harassment that is involved during Erotica 1's doubling ISK scam.

For those who do not know about Erotica 1's scam, it involves having many members of the New Order vouch for her that she is indeed a legitimate ISK doubler, aftwerwards Erotica will indeed start doubling the persons ISK. After a person has done this twice they are given the opportunity for a "Bonus Room", wherein the target must hand over every last bit of property they own as a sign of "good faith".

This is where the line between harmless and harassment starts, so far everything stated is simple scam tactics and is a "shame on you for believing them" moment. What occurs NEXT however is where I feel this group crosses the line of simple EVE trolling.

The target is lured into a third party mic chat to discuss finalizing the transaction. The entire conversation is recorded and will be uploaded to their minerbumping.com website for prosperity as well as a lengthy description of the event and worded in a way that will bring the most embarrassment to the target. If this seems familiar at all to the Mittani incident, its because it is. Public ridicule, a total lack of regard for how far they take the ridicule, it in no way benefits the game or "creates content".

Please listen to and read the following example:


https://soundcloud.com/minerbumping/Erotica1-scams-Hydra-and-makes-him-sing-Im-a-little-teapot

*Explained*

http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/05/hydra-headed-lies-part-1.html Part 1
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/05/hydra-headed-lies-part-2.html Part 2
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/hydra-headed-lies-part-3.html Part 3
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/hydra-headed-lies-part-4.html Part 4
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/hydra-headed-lies-part-5.html Part 5

As you can see, the players humiliate the target by having them do these embarrassing acts, and then post the .wav files for all of their fans to enjoy, lastly of course the player never had any chance of getting their items back or doubling their assets.

I urge the CSM and the CCP to really take a hard look at if this benefits the game at all. Exactly at what point do you stop to say, hey this is going too far, this isn't what was intended for EVE gameplay. I strongly believe that what is being allowed to occur currently is cyberbullying, illegal in many places. I am not requesting that the players be banned, their miner bumping actions be hindered, or even for them to stop the scam in general. I simply would like CCP to step in and halt any further promotion of this obscene practice of public ridicule and humiliation

I have only been here a month, and in that time this issue has so disgusted me that im already submitting requests to CSM and CCP, a month.

*edit* I'd like to state I started by first creating a support ticket about this issue, but was told I would have to bring this issue up through this channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2 - 2013-10-26 17:55:32 UTC
You seem to have mistaken the forum for a support ticket.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-10-26 17:56:59 UTC
admiral root wrote:
You seem to have mistaken the forum for a support ticket.


Please read the last sentence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#4 - 2013-10-26 21:53:02 UTC
Nah. It's stuff like this that makes EVE fun

I'm pretty sure there is a recording of me somewhere singing "I like big Butts and I cannot lie..." after a particularly embarrassing incident. Oops
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-10-26 22:05:44 UTC
Quote:
I wished Erotica1 a happy birthday because I think everyone deserves a happy joyous birthday..

but now I can only truly say I wish that Erotica1 would die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.


This is the OP in the minerbumping forums who now without the slightest bit of irony, would like to whip out charges of harassment and "cyber bullying" at what goes on inside of a game.

Quote:
*edit* I'd like to state I started by first creating a support ticket about this issue, but was told I would have to bring this issue up through this channel.


You've already gotten your answer as to whether it is a EULA breach to scam players so your title is misleading.

Go find a game you like to play. Eve, and any competitive game, isn't for you.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-10-26 22:09:53 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Quote:
I wished Erotica1 a happy birthday because I think everyone deserves a happy joyous birthday..

but now I can only truly say I wish that Erotica1 would die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.


This is the OP in the minerbumping forums who now without the slightest bit of irony, would like to whip out charges of harassment and "cyber bullying" at what goes on inside of a game.

Quote:
*edit* I'd like to state I started by first creating a support ticket about this issue, but was told I would have to bring this issue up through this channel.


You've already gotten your answer as to whether it is a EULA breach to scam players so your title is misleading.

Go find a game you like to play. Eve, and any competitive game, isn't for you.



I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-10-26 22:17:26 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly.


Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-10-26 22:22:23 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly.


Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help.


If you don't mind , this thread is for constructive well thought out debate over whether this type of behavior should be allowed by EULA, your personal attacks are not appreciated, feel free to do those in any of the other threads your currently engaging me in.

If you don't have a specific argument against the proposal , I ask you refrain from posting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-10-26 22:31:47 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly.


Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help.


If you don't mind , this thread is for constructive well thought out debate over whether this type of behavior should be allowed by EULA, your personal attacks are not appreciated, feel free to do those in any of the other threads your currently engaging me in.

If you don't have a specific argument against the proposal , I ask you refrain from posting.


Haha.. complaining about personal attacks. That is rich. Also, "forum", not "pulpit". Your proposal is bad because no evidence cited consitutes harrasment or cyberbulling. CCP is pretty good about bringing the banhammer when it does, and they sent you here instead. In fact, the only two people mentioned in this thread who said they wanted someone to die is The Mittani and you. Which while not EULA breaking because you like to be passive-agressive with your RL death fantasies, is sick. If you feel like that about anyone, seek help.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-10-26 22:40:01 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
I was wondering when you would pull this. Those are a direct quote of my feelings towards bullies, and I am not ashamed of them. No actual threat levied against Erotica 1 and im sure if you ask him he'll tell you I've been nothing but civil even thought I think... very little of him to put it kindly.


Very little? You want him dead. Over a video game. You're unbalanced and disconnected with reality. I'm pretty sure you should seek professional help.


If you don't mind , this thread is for constructive well thought out debate over whether this type of behavior should be allowed by EULA, your personal attacks are not appreciated, feel free to do those in any of the other threads your currently engaging me in.

If you don't have a specific argument against the proposal , I ask you refrain from posting.


Haha.. complaining about personal attacks. That is rich. Also, "forum", not "pulpit". Your proposal is bad because no evidence cited consitutes harrasment or cyberbulling. CCP is pretty good about bringing the banhammer when it does, and they sent you here instead. In fact, the only two people mentioned in this thread who said they wanted someone to die is The Mittani and you. Which while not EULA breaking because you like to be passive-agressive with your RL death fantasies, is sick. If you feel like that about anyone, seek help.


Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-26 22:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:

Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.


Good. When he gets to the part where you wished a fellow human being would:

Quote:
die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.


I am sure he'll recommend therapy for you as well.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#12 - 2013-10-26 23:16:26 UTC
He's mad

The Tears Must Flow

Lady Areola Fappington
#13 - 2013-10-26 23:20:29 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:

Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.


Good. When he gets to the part where you wished a fellow human being would:

Quote:
die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.


I am sure he'll recommend therapy for you as well.



As a specialist in cyberbullying, I'd like to state, Erotica 1's activities do not represent what we know as cyberbullying.


Also, as stated many, many, many times before, the CSM really isn't the appropriate entity to ask for EULA/TOS changes. It's not something they do. I'd also recommend you take a quick moment to review exactly WHO your CSM reps are. They.....tend to enjoy seeing emergent gameplay.

If you really, really, really think Ero 1 and company are breaking "cyberbully" laws, I recommend you talk with your local law enforcement entity.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-10-26 23:24:33 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:

Im currently having the evidence reviewed by a specialist in cyberbullying. I should have it within the week.


Good. When he gets to the part where you wished a fellow human being would:

Quote:
die in front of his PC releasing his bowels on his chair, and being discovered alone with 50 cats eating his corpse.


I am sure he'll recommend therapy for you as well.



As a specialist in cyberbullying, I'd like to state, Erotica 1's activities do not represent what we know as cyberbullying.


Also, as stated many, many, many times before, the CSM really isn't the appropriate entity to ask for EULA/TOS changes. It's not something they do. I'd also recommend you take a quick moment to review exactly WHO your CSM reps are. They.....tend to enjoy seeing emergent gameplay.

If you really, really, really think Ero 1 and company are breaking "cyberbully" laws, I recommend you talk with your local law enforcement entity.


Specialist? Can you please explain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-10-26 23:35:15 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


You gotta go Parallux for quality, and ancient, Eve tears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#16 - 2013-10-27 00:12:09 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:

Hahahahaha... the thug lyfe meets internet games.

There should be shows on this! Lol
Lady Areola Fappington
#17 - 2013-10-27 00:52:42 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:


Specialist? Can you please explain.



The words speak for themselves. I am a specialist in cyberbullying.

Here, bullying, at it's core, required forced nonconsensual involvement in an enviroment. Schoolkids can be bullied, because they cannot remove themselves from school. Workplace bullying exists because it's quite difficult for someone to up and change a job. Cyberbullying exists only in that social media has become a huge part of today's life, and isn't something easy to escape from.


Ero 1's bonus rooms and singing are purely consensual. Nobody forces you to play Ero's game. You are not required to join the bonus round. Nobody is holding a gun to a person's head, forcing them to sing. You can walk away at any time.


You can start calling it "bullying", when CCP comes in and says "sing on ventrillo or lose your account". Till then, it's someone making a poor decision.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-10-27 01:25:39 UTC
And it's not done through any Eve medium. It would be like CCP enforcing harassment rules on kugutsumen.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-10-27 09:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: oOReikaOo Michiko
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:


Specialist? Can you please explain.



The words speak for themselves. I am a specialist in cyberbullying.

Here, bullying, at it's core, required forced nonconsensual involvement in an enviroment. Schoolkids can be bullied, because they cannot remove themselves from school. Workplace bullying exists because it's quite difficult for someone to up and change a job. Cyberbullying exists only in that social media has become a huge part of today's life, and isn't something easy to escape from.


Ero 1's bonus rooms and singing are purely consensual. Nobody forces you to play Ero's game. You are not required to join the bonus round. Nobody is holding a gun to a person's head, forcing them to sing. You can walk away at any time.


You can start calling it "bullying", when CCP comes in and says "sing on ventrillo or lose your account". Till then, it's someone making a poor decision.


So you think just because we can quit EVE Online its not cyberbullying? Ridiculous.

"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power. Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion, and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Justifications and rationalizations for such behavior sometimes include differences of class, race, religion, gender, sexuality, appearance, behavior, or ability.[2][3] If bullying is done by a group, it is called mobbing.[4] The target of bullying is sometimes referred to as a "victim""

No where in this definition does it say "hey your not a victim if you can walk away". I am at work and my manager bullies me, but HEY its not bullying because I can quit my job!!! No your still being bullied, you should not have to quit your job , quit a game, or do ANYTHING because of another person. You are bullies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2013-10-27 10:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Danika Princip
You are aware that alliance panels at fanfest have frequently contained clips of people being made to sing as ransoms for thier ship, right? And that these pannels have been pre-approved by CCP before they're put on?

If they thought making people sing was bad, they wouldn't allow that.

Now, I have nothing to do with new order, other than finding them hilarious, but I think the only EULA violation here is you literally wishing for the death of another human being over a stupid internet spaceship video game. You need help.

Edit: How do the cyberbulling laws in iceland work anyway? Roll
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