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Wormholes

 
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The kings are dead, the rest are just farmers.

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Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#121 - 2013-10-29 19:45:31 UTC
Bronya Boga wrote:
Pobunjenik wrote:
wSpace is fine.
However, I'd love to see more organized PVP encounters.
Then again, I don't trust anyone'll respect the rules. :D


If a SUSU member gives you his word he cant back off it. Its one of the only rules we enforce "keep your word"


Ditto... and if ransoms are offered and not upheld please inform me
Chalmecatecuchtlz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-10-29 20:56:45 UTC
There are no rules...


Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16

Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16 Proc 4 CSM16
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#123 - 2013-10-29 21:46:45 UTC
Chalmecatecuchtlz wrote:
There are no rules...




I'm a personal fan of respect over "rules". But EVE wouldn't be EVE without its vast variety of personas...
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#124 - 2013-10-29 22:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: TXG SYNC
Glyndi wrote:
I'm a personal fan of respect over "rules". But EVE wouldn't be EVE without its vast variety of personas...


We like most of our opponents enough to come to their defense if it means more pew :-) As I explained to my son, "It's like playing a game of chess at the park every weekend against a certain set of opponents. One day you show up at the park to find that someone's trying to kidnap a chess-mate. Do you rally to his rescue, or say, 'screw that old bastard, he beat me way too often anyway'?"

Or as someone else on comms put it, wormholers are like Scottish clans. We fight and bicker and **** and moan about and to one another, but often resent outsiders kicking you around. It's MY job to kick you around, thank you very much!

EDIT: Really, CCP? You don't censor "bastard" but you censor "****"? Oy, our Aussie players must have a hard time talking about being drunk around here.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#125 - 2013-10-30 09:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
That is what happens when game mechanics don't offer conflict drivers. Fun is good for a while but won't create fights forever.

At the current moment there is no good reason to fight in wormholes, nothing to gain other than fun and bragging rights. Now we are reduced to honorable fights (read consensual pvp) or pve ganks. The idea that you have to come the forums and ask people to fight you isn't what eve about, it is not about arena style fights. I hate to be dramatic but real wh pvp has been dead for a while now, and unless something gets changed it will only become worse, just a farmer haven.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#126 - 2013-10-30 10:24:31 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
That is what happens when game mechanics don't offer conflict drivers. Fun is good for a while but won't create fights forever.

At the current moment there is no good reason to fight in wormholes, nothing to gain other than fun and bragging rights. Now we are reduced to honorable fights (read consensual pvp) or pve ganks. The idea that you have to come the forums and ask people to fight you isn't what eve about, it is not about arena style fights. I hate to be dramatic but real wh pvp has been dead for a while now, and unless something gets changed it will only become worse, just a farmer haven.

This will change when/if SMA:s start dropping loot again.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2013-10-30 10:39:45 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
This will change when/if SMA:s start dropping loot again.


I believe that was changed to remove additional corp awox/theft incentives. Yes, there are ways to avoid it, even if SMAs and corp hangars dropped everything, but POS mechanics in general require an overhaul.

W-space just needs a little refreshing content, be it lower class anoms spawning in systems, new pve sites, etc.
An idea I had is to give every PvE site a small chance to spawn a wormhole upon completion. The more sites you do, the higher the chance of getting a WH to open up.

Get sleepers to 'participate' in pvp in small gangs (a.k.a. fight going on, suddenly a sleeper squad warps in and starts targeting everyone), etc.

I know these might not be the best ideas, but new content would drag more people into WHs. More people = more pew.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2013-10-30 11:08:45 UTC
Borsek wrote:

I know these might not be the best ideas, but new content would drag more people into WHs. More people = more pew.

usually people say "Players are Eve Online content"

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Sandslinger
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-10-30 11:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sandslinger
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
That is what happens when game mechanics don't offer conflict drivers. Fun is good for a while but won't create fights forever.

At the current moment there is no good reason to fight in wormholes, nothing to gain other than fun and bragging rights. Now we are reduced to honorable fights (read consensual pvp) or pve ganks. The idea that you have to come the forums and ask people to fight you isn't what eve about, it is not about arena style fights. I hate to be dramatic but real wh pvp has been dead for a while now, and unless something gets changed it will only become worse, just a farmer haven.

This will change when/if SMA:s start dropping loot again.



Sorry but this is just rubbish.

We(read wh pvp entities) fought in the start, we continued to fight and we still do just for Bragging rights.

SMA can drop all they like, when they did every invasion ended in the residents suiciding the **** out of anything they had

Bragging rights/Achievement is the ultimate conflict driver in any game, what else is left when you turn any game off.

Not saying we couldn't need more conflict drivers, but conflict drivers is a two edged sword, make it too valuable to invade and there won't be any wormhole entities left. With enough motivation for invading and taking, the natural response is to blob up to hitherto unknown numbers in wh to invade and steal.
As it is most invasions are either because someone has a personal grudge, want bragging rights or just want the hole.

Leave no drivers and the only pvp entities will be the ones who actively go for the bragging rights in wh space (as opposed to using wh to get isk to get bragging rights for your fleet in nullsec)

In nullsec I have flown around thousand of times and the second we meet a fleet that can't match and spots us first, there is zero chance of a fight. just plain zero. In wormholes sometimes entities say "let's fight at the sun with equal numbers"

So the difference is in nullsec you get no fight, where in wh sometimes you can arrange a fight anyways. Yet people ***** about this also saying it is not [insert whinge here]............

Meythal had a nice idea here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3802430#post3802430
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#130 - 2013-10-30 12:26:30 UTC
Borsek wrote:
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
This will change when/if SMA:s start dropping loot again.


I believe that was changed to remove additional corp awox/theft incentives.


CCP made it very clear that the reason loot larger than 27,500m3 no longer drops is solely due to performance problems, and the design decision has downsides.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#131 - 2013-10-30 13:07:00 UTC
Sandslinger wrote:
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
That is what happens when game mechanics don't offer conflict drivers. Fun is good for a while but won't create fights forever.

At the current moment there is no good reason to fight in wormholes, nothing to gain other than fun and bragging rights. Now we are reduced to honorable fights (read consensual pvp) or pve ganks. The idea that you have to come the forums and ask people to fight you isn't what eve about, it is not about arena style fights. I hate to be dramatic but real wh pvp has been dead for a while now, and unless something gets changed it will only become worse, just a farmer haven.

This will change when/if SMA:s start dropping loot again.



Sorry but this is just rubbish.

We(read wh pvp entities) fought in the start, we continued to fight and we still do just for Bragging rights.

SMA can drop all they like, when they did every invasion ended in the residents suiciding the **** out of anything they had

Bragging rights/Achievement is the ultimate conflict driver in any game, what else is left when you turn any game off.

Not saying we couldn't need more conflict drivers, but conflict drivers is a two edged sword, make it too valuable to invade and there won't be any wormhole entities left. With enough motivation for invading and taking, the natural response is to blob up to hitherto unknown numbers in wh to invade and steal.
As it is most invasions are either because someone has a personal grudge, want bragging rights or just want the hole.

Leave no drivers and the only pvp entities will be the ones who actively go for the bragging rights in wh space (as opposed to using wh to get isk to get bragging rights for your fleet in nullsec)

In nullsec I have flown around thousand of times and the second we meet a fleet that can't match and spots us first, there is zero chance of a fight. just plain zero. In wormholes sometimes entities say "let's fight at the sun with equal numbers"

So the difference is in nullsec you get no fight, where in wh sometimes you can arrange a fight anyways. Yet people ***** about this also saying it is not [insert whinge here]............

Meythal had a nice idea here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3802430#post3802430


In null sec if you don't fight, you lose your sov, moons, poses. In wh's if you don't fight you lose nothing.

I agree that it is indeed a very delicate balance, after all I believe most people here don't want wormholes to become the blob fest that null sec is, but at the same time, as things are right now, we still are mostly getting consensual pvp, and very rarely, fights that mean something. There has to be a cost for not fighting, or things will only get worse.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2013-10-30 13:20:02 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Sandslinger wrote:
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
That is what happens when game mechanics don't offer conflict drivers. Fun is good for a while but won't create fights forever.

At the current moment there is no good reason to fight in wormholes, nothing to gain other than fun and bragging rights. Now we are reduced to honorable fights (read consensual pvp) or pve ganks. The idea that you have to come the forums and ask people to fight you isn't what eve about, it is not about arena style fights. I hate to be dramatic but real wh pvp has been dead for a while now, and unless something gets changed it will only become worse, just a farmer haven.

This will change when/if SMA:s start dropping loot again.



Sorry but this is just rubbish.

We(read wh pvp entities) fought in the start, we continued to fight and we still do just for Bragging rights.

SMA can drop all they like, when they did every invasion ended in the residents suiciding the **** out of anything they had

Bragging rights/Achievement is the ultimate conflict driver in any game, what else is left when you turn any game off.

Not saying we couldn't need more conflict drivers, but conflict drivers is a two edged sword, make it too valuable to invade and there won't be any wormhole entities left. With enough motivation for invading and taking, the natural response is to blob up to hitherto unknown numbers in wh to invade and steal.
As it is most invasions are either because someone has a personal grudge, want bragging rights or just want the hole.

Leave no drivers and the only pvp entities will be the ones who actively go for the bragging rights in wh space (as opposed to using wh to get isk to get bragging rights for your fleet in nullsec)

In nullsec I have flown around thousand of times and the second we meet a fleet that can't match and spots us first, there is zero chance of a fight. just plain zero. In wormholes sometimes entities say "let's fight at the sun with equal numbers"

So the difference is in nullsec you get no fight, where in wh sometimes you can arrange a fight anyways. Yet people ***** about this also saying it is not [insert whinge here]............

Meythal had a nice idea here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3802430#post3802430


In null sec if you don't fight*, you lose your sov, moons, poses. In wh's if you don't fight you lose nothing.

I agree that it is indeed a very delicate balance, after all I believe most people here don't want wormholes to become the blob fest that null sec is, but at the same time, as things are right now, we still are mostly getting consensual pvp, and very rarely, fights that mean something. There has to be a cost for not fighting, or things will only get worse.



*Fight someone trying to take your space.

You roam through null, nullbears(mainly the renters, there are legit pvp corps/alliances who will fight at a drop of the hat) tend to dock up. They don't fight because "omg this 20 man gang can steal our moons and stuff", the only time they fight is if you are a) annoying as ****, b) they think they can win, or c) they really want you gone so they can go back to running anoms in their carriers(or d, they are fcon and you ganked their kronus salvaging in an icebelt).

In w-space if you don't fight, sure nothing can happen, but maybe you get put on the **** list and get invaded when someone is really, really, bored and/or hates themselves as much as they hate you. Farmers kinda don't give a **** cause all they end up losing is a small tower and an empty cha/sma
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#133 - 2013-10-30 14:45:02 UTC
Maybe if WH alliances would team up to create some sort of WH PVP league?

Like, we choose a system (w/o effects), every notable WH ally/corp anchors a tower in the same system. Fights are organized and planned ahead. Wins/losses are noted, fights are recorded and uploaded.

Like a proper little alliance tournament, but with blackjack and hookers.
Dmitry Wizard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#134 - 2013-10-30 15:06:45 UTC
Pobunjenik wrote:
Maybe if WH alliances would team up to create some sort of WH PVP league?

Like, we choose a system (w/o effects), every notable WH ally/corp anchors a tower in the same system. Fights are organized and planned ahead. Wins/losses are noted, fights are recorded and uploaded.

Like a proper little alliance tournament, but with blackjack and hookers.



I support this ideally fully. the problem is getting everyone rolling into it . we could always set up a public instance of EWS and use it so everyone has the ability to find the chain?

"Wormhole corps are like a bunch of homeschooled kids"
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#135 - 2013-10-30 15:16:49 UTC
Is it time to FEMALE.DOG at CCP so they give us a WH creation module? :D
Witchway
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#136 - 2013-10-30 15:31:02 UTC
Dmitry Wizard wrote:
Pobunjenik wrote:
Maybe if WH alliances would team up to create some sort of WH PVP league?

Like, we choose a system (w/o effects), every notable WH ally/corp anchors a tower in the same system. Fights are organized and planned ahead. Wins/losses are noted, fights are recorded and uploaded.

Like a proper little alliance tournament, but with blackjack and hookers.



I support this ideally fully. the problem is getting everyone rolling into it . we could always set up a public instance of EWS and use it so everyone has the ability to find the chain?


you assume we are all going to play by your rules. not likely to happen.

Official Shit Talking Captain, Bastard of Hard Knocks Inc.
Witchway
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#137 - 2013-10-30 15:34:05 UTC
Sandslinger wrote:
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
That is what happens when game mechanics don't offer conflict drivers. Fun is good for a while but won't create fights forever.

At the current moment there is no good reason to fight in wormholes, nothing to gain other than fun and bragging rights. Now we are reduced to honorable fights (read consensual pvp) or pve ganks. The idea that you have to come the forums and ask people to fight you isn't what eve about, it is not about arena style fights. I hate to be dramatic but real wh pvp has been dead for a while now, and unless something gets changed it will only become worse, just a farmer haven.

This will change when/if SMA:s start dropping loot again.



Sorry but this is just rubbish.

We(read wh pvp entities) fought in the start, we continued to fight and we still do just for Bragging rights.

SMA can drop all they like, when they did every invasion ended in the residents suiciding the **** out of anything they had


so they couldn't fix the SMA dropping and add in a line of code that said you couldn't self-destruct inside a forcefield. It seems to me your brain is rubbish.

Official Shit Talking Captain, Bastard of Hard Knocks Inc.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2013-10-30 17:22:55 UTC
Dmitry Wizard wrote:
Pobunjenik wrote:
Maybe if WH alliances would team up to create some sort of WH PVP league?

Like, we choose a system (w/o effects), every notable WH ally/corp anchors a tower in the same system. Fights are organized and planned ahead. Wins/losses are noted, fights are recorded and uploaded.

Like a proper little alliance tournament, but with blackjack and hookers.



I support this ideally fully. the problem is getting everyone rolling into it . we could always set up a public instance of EWS and use it so everyone has the ability to find the chain?


I would participate. Well, in the blackjack and hookers part.






Ehh, who am I kidding... just the hookers.
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#139 - 2013-10-30 18:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Pobunjenik
Witchway wrote:

you assume we are all going to play by your rules. not likely to happen.


And then there is this guy.
We can either let you make up the rules (honestly, totally fine by me, all I want is pew) or we can respect Alliance Tournament rules (which is also fine).

Like so.
Only, instead of PLEX, each alliance pays XX ISK to the champion.
Chalmecatecuchtlz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2013-10-30 21:20:52 UTC
Winner of the Worm Hole Alliance Tournament (WHAT) League is 50 Bil in Nano Ribbons and an Ishukone Scorpion.

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