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[NEWS] “Operation Highlander” documents released, implicate Federation in widespread spying
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#21 - 2013-10-25 01:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Seriphyn Inhonores
Nope. It's a leaked report. There is no statement from the Senate on this matter.

Let me spell it out. It's a report to the Senate from the Federal Intelligence Office. The Senate does not control the FIO; that's the role of the executive. However, it does have oversight over Gallente intelligence assets, but it's common knowledge the FIO hides the vast majority of its activities from legislature purview. Operational security, and all that.

This is the FIO claiming a contribution to Heth's downfall, not the Senate.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-10-25 02:03:34 UTC
One could also take the view that the leaking of this report is not a leak at all but a well designed active measure of misinformation to lower confidence in corporate leadership in the State.

In the end, the Federation did not destroy Tibus Heth. Tibus Heth destroyed Tibus Heth.

I suppose this is just one more confirmation of what is already known: the Federation continues its campaigns of political espionage abroad. Much the same how State corporate competitive intelligence assets continue their own campaigns of economic and industrial espionage abroad. At least with them, we can still continue to neither confirm nor deny that technological secrets are being stolen and foreign companies seized in the name of Caldari interests.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#23 - 2013-10-25 02:06:59 UTC
Heth continaully questioned the actions of some of the Mega Corporations decisions as being in the best interests of the State. He even went as far as to call some executives as traitors, and was one of the reasons for Heth's vision of a single solidified State.

With this document finally coming to light his suspicions are now finally to be proved right.

But the names have not yet come to light, but it can only be a matter of time. These high-level megacorp executives must surely know the game is up and should now hand themselves in and face the justice they deserve. Mens Reppola is one name we believe to be on that document. Demand his arrest on grounds of treason. We wil be sending forces to Ishukone headquarters Malkalen to monitor the situation there.

Quote:
Anyone who has aided the Federation or its agencies, from CEO to janitor, should be shot, their assets seized, and their family dismissed and barred from further employment in the State.


I agree wholeheartedly with Vikarion sentiments on this matter.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2013-10-25 02:40:14 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I'll say only this: I'm usually sympathetic to Caldari causes.

But your nation declared war on ours, invaded our space, not the other way around - and forget the justifications or the casus belli, that's the way it happened. If it somehow comes as some sort of shock to you that the nation with the largest foreign intelligence agency in the world put in a hell of a lot of work running interference against a country ruled by a tyrant with delusions of genocide who broke every treaty his country ever signed to fight a war against us - well, then I'd say you have very little understanding of the way the world works.

Believe what you want to believe, criticise what you want to criticise. The Federation's not just going to lie down for any two-bit MTAC operator who wants to murder our citizens.


I have said it before and I will say it again, as often as it needs to be repeated. ANY discussion of who was in the right and who was in the wrong regarding our return to Caldari Prime that does NOT start with your Federation's decision that it can abandon any of it's high and mighty founding principles whenever expedient, practice collective punishment, attempt genocide and then drive a planetary population into a reckless diaspora halfway across the Cluster is a nonsense. You do NOT get to say that our REASONS don't matter - they mattered very much to us and if our return should have taught you ANYTHING it is that what matters to one side can be made to matter to the other too.

Nobody has criticised the Federation for practising espionage. I know you'd love us to do so, because it would mean you could lambast us as the worst kind of hypocrites. The only venom in this thread has been directed at those citizens of the STATE who took your filthy traitor's money.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2013-10-25 02:59:51 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Nope. It's a leaked report. There is no statement from the Senate on this matter.

Let me spell it out. It's a report to the Senate from the Federal Intelligence Office. The Senate does not control the FIO; that's the role of the executive. However, it does have oversight over Gallente intelligence assets, but it's common knowledge the FIO hides the vast majority of its activities from legislature purview. Operational security, and all that.

This is the FIO claiming a contribution to Heth's downfall, not the Senate.


Incorrect. We have no information on who compiled the dossier. Therefore, it is as likely a Senate document as a FIO document. You are spelling nothing.

That said, if the FIO is hiding its activities from governmental oversight, that means wonderful things for your vaunted democracy, Inhonores.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-10-25 03:44:17 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


I have said it before and I will say it again, as often as it needs to be repeated. ANY discussion of who was in the right and who was in the wrong regarding our return to Caldari Prime that does NOT start with your Federation's decision that it can abandon any of it's high and mighty founding principles whenever expedient, practice collective punishment, attempt genocide and then drive a planetary population into a reckless diaspora halfway across the Cluster is a nonsense. You do NOT get to say that our REASONS don't matter - they mattered very much to us and if our return should have taught you ANYTHING it is that what matters to one side can be made to matter to the other too.


People seem to forget that most Federal citizens, civillian, government, and military, were appalled by the actions of the Ultra-Nationalist. Hell, we even put all those responsible on trial.

Luminate Era of the Gallente Federation wrote:
The Federation public and sub-leaders found the actions atrocious and appalling, considering the bombardment a disproportionate response to Nouvelle Rouvenor...


The Ultra-Nationalist regime started to get paranoid of conspirators against them. The population was getting restless over the continued martial law and suspension of the Federal Charter and Constitution. The Federation military was forced to withdraw from occupied worlds and redeploy to Caldari Prime, meaning that the authoritarian grip on those planets was loosened. Anti-war protests began to erupt in locales where the Federation had withdrawn, or places that it had little presence to begin with, such as Intaki. Instability was looking to return as quickly as its gunpoint opposite had been established....


With the heavy weight of authoritarianism lifted, voices began to emerge that would have been labelled dissident or traitorous under the previous government. While they still saw the Caldari as selfish and prideful, they nonetheless saw the Ultra-Nationalists as far more criminal than the Caldari could ever be. They vehemently disagreed with the bombardment of Caldari Prime, even going as far as to call it an attempt at genocide, and saw Duvailer and his irk as tyrants that must be punished for their actions in ruling the Federation. President Yiona was in sympathy with these individuals. The Ultra-Nationalists were outlawed and, within the military establishment, senior officers who were associated with the party were stripped off their command. This was not enough to please the masses, however. Duvailer and all his associates, both military and civilian, were arrested, to be put on trial by a special tribunal.

The tribunal was to be held in the partially-reconstructed city of Tovil, mostly as a symbolic gesture. On the tribunal’s staff included the President herself and various other high-ranking Federal politicians. The Ultra-Nationalist leadership included Luc Duvailer, former members of his cabinet, advisors, and ex-officers from the Federation military command at the time. They were charged with gross incompetence, failures of leadership, corruption, violations of Federal Law, and crimes against humanity.


This isn't an attempt to shift the blame to someone else or try to lessen the severity of our actions. We know our actions are unforgivable and we can't blame you for holding a grudge. It's easy for us to suddenly start advocating for peace because we didn't lose anything comparable to what your nation lost. We understand that.

However, at the very least, acknowledge that we were trying to mend things between our people and our nations for a century before Heth stormed in. We started the last war, we've taken responsibility for it. Will the State do the same for this war? That remains to be decided. Though the fact that Heth is out of power yet we still remain at war suggests something is going on, between one or both of us.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-10-25 03:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Though the fact that Heth is out of power yet we still remain at war suggests something is going on, between one or both of us.


Could be that whole meddling in State internal affairs through political espionage as the Highlander documents outline and confirm, conducted by an FIO director such as Mentas Blaque, an avowed Gallentean nationalist who in turn serves the Roden Administration whose President is in the armaments manufacturing industry and might have a vested interest in prolonging the war as long as possible for his own gain both financially and politically.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Texcoyo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-10-25 08:31:40 UTC
There's a war on. Of course there's going to be a lot of espionage, backdoor deals, profit, grandstanding and propaganda. Wither or not the documents outline true or false statements, both sides will exploit any means possible to achieve victory in a war that has no forseeable end, as long as capsuleers lead the front lines.

So until the war is ended, we continue to make big Caldari ships into little Caldari ships(components).
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-10-25 09:44:04 UTC
Texcoyo wrote:

So until the war is ended, we continue to make big Caldari ships into little Caldari ships(components).


Knowing the State Protectorate these days the majority of components you'll get are cloaking devices and warp core stabilizers.

It is only the strength of the State economy that can turn hordes of two week capsuleer graduates into overnight billionaires.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#30 - 2013-10-25 09:47:43 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
What is news is that infiltration to higher levels of the State's management occurred. That represents a clear counterintelligence failure, which should result in investigation and an improvement of security procedures.


I don't think we have enough details to draw that conclusion.

For one thing, DCI might let a known agent operate for years in order to observe their communications, feed them false information, or map out their associates and operating procedures.

For a second thing, we don't know how many of those high level executives are working with State intelligence.

For a third thing, it's very likely that any Federation report would emphasize or exaggerate their success. How many is 'several?' 200? 75? 15?

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-10-25 10:05:54 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
a second thing, we don't know how many of those high level executives are working with State intelligence.

For a third thing, it's very likely that any Federation report would emphasize or exaggerate their success. How many is 'several?' 200? 75? 15?



One is too many.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#32 - 2013-10-25 10:24:49 UTC
Observing all this, it seems the Gallente are more upset about this document then the State. State seems to accept that Gallente infiltrated us as something that was to be expected, and lets face it, we got spies in the Federation as well, it's a natural thing to do when you can't get along.
Gallente caspuleers seem relatively calm considering the Black Eagles (It's them again!) are raiding several Scope offices. perhaps acceptance that the Black Eagles perform a needed but dirty job in keeping a nation stable.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#33 - 2013-10-25 11:31:10 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Wonder how long before the Provists cry out that Heth's removal was a Federal conspiracy and demand his reinstation...

Oh, I'm sorry, have you been absent for the last few months? Because they were doing that from the second the CEP denounced him.


I didn't think [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags were necessary in my original post.

As to all of this, there's just far too many false flag potential scenarios in all of this, and considering how Blaque and the FIO operates, I wouldn't be surprised if any, and all, were true.

  • Was this report ever really lost, or was it "released" under a false pretence that it was leaked, with the appropriate dramatic response to make it more realistic?

  • Are there really agents or sources of information, at any tier, within the State; or are they hoping to create instability when the knee jerk reaction is to have a witch hunt come wild goose chase?

  • Was this all just a really good excuse to do a full shakedown on the Scope, for other articles they're more interested in?


    • Again, this is Blaque, play all the angles, because he's probably thought of them all first.

    When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
    TomHorn
    Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
    #34 - 2013-10-25 15:14:26 UTC
    Quote:
    As to all of this, there's just far too many false flag potential scenarios in all of this, and considering how Blaque and the FIO operates, I wouldn't be surprised if any, and all, were true.


    •Was this report ever really lost, or was it "released" under a false pretence that it was leaked, with the appropriate dramatic response to make it more realistic?


    •Are there really agents or sources of information, at any tier, within the State; or are they hoping to create instability when the knee jerk reaction is to have a witch hunt come wild goose chase?


    •Was this all just a really good excuse to do a full shakedown on the Scope, for other articles they're more interested in?


    Again, this is Blaque, play all the angles, because he's probably thought of them all first.


    I never had you down as a conspiracy theorist Marellus. The uproar in the Senate when the document went missing, raiding of several Scope news agencies now by the Black Eagles.No this is just to far fetched to be a conspircay this is genuine concern for missing confidential document.
    Caellach Marellus
    Stormcrows
    #35 - 2013-10-25 15:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
    TomHorn wrote:
    Quote:
    As to all of this, there's just far too many false flag potential scenarios in all of this, and considering how Blaque and the FIO operates, I wouldn't be surprised if any, and all, were true.


    •Was this report ever really lost, or was it "released" under a false pretence that it was leaked, with the appropriate dramatic response to make it more realistic?


    •Are there really agents or sources of information, at any tier, within the State; or are they hoping to create instability when the knee jerk reaction is to have a witch hunt come wild goose chase?


    •Was this all just a really good excuse to do a full shakedown on the Scope, for other articles they're more interested in?


    Again, this is Blaque, play all the angles, because he's probably thought of them all first.


    I never had you down as a conspiracy theorist Marellus.


    I'm not, I just have never trusted Blaque as far as I can throw him. The man is slime, his organisation goes against all the principles on which the Federation was founded, and is one of the main reasons I keep my distance from being a supporter of the Federal institution as it exists today.

    Again, this is the Federation we're talking about, uproar, posturing, drama and performance art is their forte. If anyone can fake it, it's them.

    When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
    Makkal Hanaya
    Revenent Defence Corperation
    #36 - 2013-10-25 21:16:21 UTC
    Anja Suorsa wrote:
    Makkal Hanaya wrote:
    a second thing, we don't know how many of those high level executives are working with State intelligence.

    For a third thing, it's very likely that any Federation report would emphasize or exaggerate their success. How many is 'several?' 200? 75? 15?

    One is too many.

    I expect this sort of comment from a laborer who's never stepped on a battlefield, not an actual combat pilot.

    Losses, even expensive losses, are to be expected for any long-term, hostile engagement. Intelligence agencies were fighting an eternal war long before the Empyreans came around.

    Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
    Lyn Farel
    Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
    Khimi Harar
    #37 - 2013-10-25 21:25:18 UTC
    Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
    Andreus Ixiris wrote:
    I'll say only this: I'm usually sympathetic to Caldari causes.

    But your nation declared war on ours, invaded our space, not the other way around - and forget the justifications or the casus belli, that's the way it happened. If it somehow comes as some sort of shock to you that the nation with the largest foreign intelligence agency in the world put in a hell of a lot of work running interference against a country ruled by a tyrant with delusions of genocide who broke every treaty his country ever signed to fight a war against us - well, then I'd say you have very little understanding of the way the world works.

    Believe what you want to believe, criticise what you want to criticise. The Federation's not just going to lie down for any two-bit MTAC operator who wants to murder our citizens.


    I have said it before and I will say it again, as often as it needs to be repeated. ANY discussion of who was in the right and who was in the wrong regarding our return to Caldari Prime that does NOT start with your Federation's decision that it can abandon any of it's high and mighty founding principles whenever expedient, practice collective punishment, attempt genocide and then drive a planetary population into a reckless diaspora halfway across the Cluster is a nonsense. You do NOT get to say that our REASONS don't matter - they mattered very much to us and if our return should have taught you ANYTHING it is that what matters to one side can be made to matter to the other too.

    Nobody has criticised the Federation for practising espionage. I know you'd love us to do so, because it would mean you could lambast us as the worst kind of hypocrites. The only venom in this thread has been directed at those citizens of the STATE who took your filthy traitor's money.


    Pots and kettles. The State did exactly the same thing when it decided to break all its treaties a few years back.

    But like the Federation, was it really abandonning their mighty founding principles, in both cases ?
    Pieter Tuulinen
    Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
    Khimi Harar
    #38 - 2013-10-25 22:16:56 UTC
    Lyn Farel wrote:

    Pots and kettles. The State did exactly the same thing when it decided to break all its treaties a few years back.

    But like the Federation, was it really abandonning their mighty founding principles, in both cases ?


    I'll assume that you missed the part where the State's motto for two centuries was 'Hakkinen K'len' or 'We will return'.

    For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
    Diana Kim
    State Protectorate
    Caldari State
    #39 - 2013-10-25 22:24:20 UTC
    Makoto Priano wrote:
    Some contents of the leaked Highlander document have been released.

    Interesting. It's a mild word, for a mild thing: of course the Federation has intelligence assets in the State. Similarly, of course the State has intelligence assets in the Federation. This isn't news.

    What is news is that infiltration to higher levels of the State's management occurred. That represents a clear counterintelligence failure, which should result in investigation and an improvement of security procedures. Anyone who knowingly or maliciously contributed to this infiltration should be charged-- with espionage at the least, and treason at the worst.

    That said, I very much doubt that the Federation Senate can rightfully lay claim to Heth's downfall. It-- it sounds like so much grandstanding by self-important politicians, who want dearly to have their name on events, to have credit for something that is not theirs to claim.

    In any case, interesting.

    The Senate has too much to blame already besides Heth's downfall.
    In this disaster we must first blame those fake "citizens", who were acting or voicing against Tibus Heth.
    They sold and disgraced themselves.
    We must find them and eradicate them, as gallentean supporters. After we clean our camp from this filth, there will be turn for federal swines.

    Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

    In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
    James Syagrius
    Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
    #40 - 2013-10-25 22:37:25 UTC
    Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
    You do NOT get to say that our REASONS don't matter - they mattered very much to us and if our return should have taught you ANYTHING it is that what matters to one side can be made to matter to the other too.
    Should is a difficult word Pieter.

    What "it" reinforced to some is that the State cannot be trusted to keep any treaty, so why bother.

    Self justified expediency is the States prime motivation.

    Force is all the State understands.

    “Here also are the heralds of his praise."