Intergalactic Summit

Wonder how long before the Provists cry out that Heth's removal was a Federal conspiracy and demand his reinstation...

Heth was removed by the State, not by the Federation. I think most in the State would rather die than ever admit the Federation could gain that much influence over us - fortunately it is easy to see which decisions of Heth's led to his removal.

As for ANY who had a part in providing Intel that helped Operation Highlander. They're traitors. They contributed directly to the death of Admiral Visera Yanala, the destruction of the Shiigeru and the deaths of all those Navy ratings and capsuleer crews. I would take a great deal of interest in their future careers, be they ever so brief.

Agreed, Tuulinen-haan. Traitors to the State should be punished-- and, to be honest, the only suitable punishment is death and seizure of assets.

My only concern: even if State intelligence agencies should acquire a full copy of the Operation Highlander document, said documents should be treated with supreme suspicion toward their contents. I would not put it past Blacque to use the leak as a way to smear loyal citizens, hoping that our anger against traitors results in blame against those who are blameless.

Those "high-level megacorp executives" did not like Heth to a such extent that they had to work with the Federation intelligence or maby thats part of there loyalty to the State as they saw him as a threat.

Also the title states "widespread spying" but the article says only of spying against a state with whom we are in a state of a proxy war, so it's invalid, if not im waiting for more revelations.

How dare the Federation use espionage to gather information on our enemies! It's not like the State once convinced a high ranking admiral to hand them all information on our defenses and nearly cost us our home system!

Oh wait...

But seriously, Heth wanted to play the cloak and dagger game, and so we not only played with him, but we won. Game, set, match.

As for helping to take down Heth, it's a little wishy washy. Federal assistance or not, it's the Caldari people that brought down that pyscho. His actions regarding the Battle of Caldari Prime would of been seen as unforgivable and abhorrent whether we were nudging people to believe it or not. However, it's probably safe to say that Federal agents did offer some support. We certainly weren't directly responsible, but we probably did help a little bit. Things like spreading anti-provist sentiment in the Caldari media, pushing Patriot Bloc corporations such as Kaalakoita to stop supporting Heth. I'm sure we helped in that way.

But again, no matter how you look at it, it's the Caldari that are responsible for Heth's demise. This isn't even a "behind the scenes puppet master" type thing either. The State and it's people made the conscience decision to remove him from power. All the infiltration and espionage in the world would not have done the job, unless we somehow got a Black Eagles agent on the CEP or something idiotic like that.

Fredfred, I don't think a single person in this discussion has so far reacted to the disclosure of Federation spying with anything but, "Well, obviously."






It would be reasonable for the Senate to assert that Federation intelligence operatives had destabilized the situation on Caldari Prime; to destabilize the Heth government is rather a different matter. Either way, it would seem that the Senate as a proxy for the Federation government is claiming that a Federation government entity contributed directly to Heth's fall.

Perhaps, Mr. Syagrius, I overstate the repudiation. Still, the Senate surely overstates the Federation's role in matters. While obviously Heth would not have fallen as quickly without Highlander, the Federation's intelligence efforts were not a primary cause of Heth's fall. That is what irks me. Direct contribution is assuming a degree of credit.

Perhaps this is disdain for the Gallente political system speaking, but I can only imagine a group of political hacks in some locked committee room, chortling as they claim to have bested Heth and to be the reason why he was in Black Rise to be captured by, well-- whomever.

Please identify where the Federation Senate is stating anything at all.

I'll say only this: I'm usually sympathetic to Caldari causes.

But your nation declared war on ours, invaded our space, not the other way around - and forget the justifications or the casus belli, that's the way it happened. If it somehow comes as some sort of shock to you that the nation with the largest foreign intelligence agency in the world put in a hell of a lot of work running interference against a country ruled by a tyrant with delusions of genocide who broke every treaty his country ever signed to fight a war against us - well, then I'd say you have very little understanding of the way the world works.

Believe what you want to believe, criticise what you want to criticise. The Federation's not just going to lie down for any two-bit MTAC operator who wants to murder our citizens.

The release in question was, if I'm not mistaken, from a leaked Senate report. So-- really now. Inhonores, I know you love splitting hairs, but really.