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[Rubicon] Mass moving in Fleets

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Luxotor
This Cyno Will Eventually Make Sense
#21 - 2013-10-23 20:03:40 UTC
Excellent news, this is fantastic.

THE NIGHT IS DARK AND FULL OF TERRORS!
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#22 - 2013-10-23 20:18:20 UTC
Please also store the advert and it's setting!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! That is so annoying that I have to check all the right options again when I want to open the fleet for my friends.
Or maybe make a checkbox to advert the fleet by default. Or store something like "[x] Allways advert fleet /w default options" in the fleet options you just added.

Thank you!

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#23 - 2013-10-23 21:22:55 UTC
CCP karkur, can't you just work on those ossum little fixes and improvements all the time?

Just let her work goddammit!

Invalid signature format
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2013-10-23 22:21:40 UTC
Saeka Tyr wrote:
Nice! Will have to test that...

In the spirit of improving fleet management there's two things folks would like to see. Could you tell us the feasibility of them?

* Jumping from watchlist.

Blackops and titans can be added to watchlists, but when they open the bridge you have to click on the ship itself in space/overview. This is annoying and can be error prone. Using the watchlist would solve this but is not currently possible.
.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to jump using the radial menu. Give it a try, it's pretty awesome (not just saying it because I made it, I just really like it). If you don't use it regularly, and have a long delay on it, you could set the "bypass delay" shortcut, and use it when jumping.

Quote:

* Fleet bookmarks

It would be amazing if a commander could load up one of your stored fleets, and have a set of fleet-specific bookmarks.

No more wasting time messing with bookmarks. Everybody has the same thing - because the FC already set it up, and saved it.

That would, quite simply, be epic for fleets.
that's a pretty tricky thing I think, but a good idea though :)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2013-10-23 22:29:38 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Could we save a "fleet setup" as a default?

E.g. I have Fleet Command 3. I would like to, as a default, create a fleet with 3 wings, each of which has 5 squads, and make myself the fleet commander. Ideally, every time I start a fleet, I'd like it to be set up like this.
When I read it I was like "yeah, that's a great idea", and then I started to think a bit more about it and I'm not totally sure if it's worth it if you can load up the fleet setup... there are at least a few other things I think would have bigger impact... but really good idea, maybe some day Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2013-10-23 22:39:07 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
So I thought about this over lunch. We know the fleet system is crap. We know it's broken. We know people are used to it. But what if fleets could have a new 'mode' that people can turn on, similar to free mode. Manual guys can continue to operate as before.

Automatic fleets - You automatically take a place at the top of the fleet, making as many squads/wings as you have skills for.

During this mode, squad and wing warps are disabled. This is the main reason people hand pick wing commanders, generally, so a spy can't take over.

You can click a button to reorganize a fleet to automatically put people into wing/squad positions based on their skills and bonuses. Command ships -> wing commanders; favored ships for squad commanders that are more likely to live and be in system, so avoids interceptors/frigates/scouts.

At any point, you can reorganize the fleet again, or turn off automatic mode.

Difficulty involved is completely unknown, I constantly hear about the poor state of affairs in CCP code, but that doesn't make me more happy to hear.
Automatically creating squad/wings to your level -- *should* be easy
Reogranizing - Maybe difficult since I don't know how easy it is to send 55 commands to fleet to move people after viewing the composition list
Disable wing/squad - New flag, so most likely difficult.

Unhappy with what the automatic thing did? well, flip back to manual, reorg a bit, and you're happy. What is normally a 5 minute process of getting squad commanders, yelling at your dudes to take spots, etc, becomes easy. Small gangs are easier, huge fleets are easy, if things go horribly wrong, you're boned, but hopefully it's on your FC's head, and not on the individual members who don't know how to do fleets anyway.

Want to start getting fancy? Name wings based on what bonuses they might get. If they're in a Claymore, maybe say 'Skirmish bonuses'. Or, go down to the module level on those guys and see what they're running, with or without mindlink. Or start doing automatic shuffles as people leave and/or join. Then again, people might get stuck on gates etc.
sounds all fancy and stuff, and well thought out Smile these kind of changes would sadly probably require us to rewrite the whole fleet system and if we were to write it again, we would probably revisit the design of fleets. But that is not something I see us doing in the near future.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2013-10-23 22:45:04 UTC
Gods Smight wrote:
Sweet! So do I get some credit for this idea?

#238

#283 Posted: 2012.01.16 03:12
Thanks, the improvement to the watchlist is much needed. I'd still like to see the fleet window recieve some treatment. Drag and drop would be bawlsome. Being able to move various fleet members into and out of squads, wings etc would make things a lot easier. Perhaps even dragging them into the fleet from the icon in the chat window. Thanks.
Smile well, a few people have suggested it, and I probably read your post and thought it was a great idea Smile (which I think it is)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Kipzz Jiggawatt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-10-23 22:57:36 UTC
Can we get this thread sticky'd and given a [Rubicon] tag please? It is important information.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2013-10-23 22:59:15 UTC
Siddicus wrote:
Is it possible to also have the motd be saved?
As an incursion runner/FC this would be of more significant help than just the fleet squads/wings
hmmm, I've considered it, I'm just not sure about it (I don't really want to have to do a massive and busy settings window)

Daenna Chrysi wrote:
how hard would it be, to make it possible to export all fleet log files?
hmmmmm, kind of the same as above as I don't want to introduce a lot of settings and extra menu options and stuff. But I'll keep it in mind because it sounds handy Smile


Berluth Luthian wrote:
You should be able to drag a person, wing, or squad from your fleet window, and drop them onto a target on your overview making them warp there at zero.
nah, I don't agree actually

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Kaluan Kalhaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-10-23 23:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaluan Kalhaan
Fleet Comp Window:

Please add passive fleet boost skills of fleet members here in some form or other.

For example, you could add them into the mouse-over of the cell that has leadership/wing/fleet command skills. Add them as numbers from 0-10: 0-5 means the basic Armor(e.g.) Warfare skill and 6-10 means the Armor(etc) Warfare Specialist skill.

This will help people who manage cross-alliance fleets or pick-up fleets (Hi Ceofore Aideron!) where the fleet manager doesn't know which fleet members would be useful fleet boosters.

Other Settings To Save:

You should also consider making it possible to save the following settings as part of the Fleet Setup:

  • Fleet Name
  • Fleet Advertisement Details (or the lack thereof)
  • Free Move
  • Voice Enabled

And this reminds me: add setting Auto-Repost Fleet Advertisement for when there's a new Boss who's AFK.

Replace Self as Commander:

If a squad/wing/fleet commander moves another fleet member into his own position, it should swap the positions of the mover and the target in the fleet.

Why is this useful? When a commander drops unexpectedly and the fight is busy, someone else can move themselves to the commander position to view the fleet composition window and find another candidate and then finally replace himself with that new candidate.
malo414
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-10-23 23:19:16 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Will wing commanders finally get bonuses?


+1

These are great changes but the issue with wing commanders not getting bonus's really needs some love it's easily one of the biggest fleet management problems for fc's that has been around for quite a while now, would be nice to know if this is being touched on at all with these changes
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2013-10-23 23:25:02 UTC
malo414 wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Will wing commanders finally get bonuses?


+1

These are great changes but the issue with wing commanders not getting bonus's really needs some love it's easily one of the biggest fleet management problems for fc's that has been around for quite a while now, would be nice to know if this is being touched on at all with these changes
That is sadly a very hard problem to solve, and I believe it requires a major rework, if not rewrite, of the whole fleet system.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Circumstantial Evidence
#33 - 2013-10-24 00:08:18 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Siddicus wrote:
Is it possible to also have the motd be saved?
As an incursion runner/FC this would be of more significant help than just the fleet squads/wings
hmmm, I've considered it, I'm just not sure about it (I don't really want to have to do a massive and busy settings window)
I don't see a problem with 20+ settings for cool features like this, if you give us a settings menu for the settings menu, so we can disable the ones we don't want to see.

(I started off this post for the HUMOR value but then I started to like it...)
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#34 - 2013-10-24 08:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Janeway84
Very cool stuff! Smile
One idea i got was is it possible to show wich fleet members are in warp and wich are not?
That way when you got some one warping to tackle you can get a good notice when to warp the fleet in on the tackler? Idea
Sparkus Volundar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-10-24 09:59:24 UTC
Thank you!

All sounds pretty good. Being able to store and load fleet setups plus knowing what ships docked people are sat in is going to be very nice!

.
fudface
ACME-INC
#36 - 2013-10-24 11:04:21 UTC
+1 for the fleet changes

small ask,

give the fc the option to give medals/awards to fleet members not in his corp?

my 2 isk worth
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-10-24 12:40:41 UTC
Three tiny(?) things coming to my mind:

- Could you color command positions or add a small red cross if it's missing appropriate skills?
- Optional ship size icons (similar to overview) would be nice for fleet composition and/or fleet window as well.
- (Unless I missed that functionality:) Allow us to set/change the default squad people joining using fleet adverts will be put in.

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-10-24 12:42:55 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Daenna Chrysi wrote:
how hard would it be, to make it possible to export all fleet log files?
hmmmmm, kind of the same as above as I don't want to introduce a lot of settings and extra menu options and stuff. But I'll keep it in mind because it sounds handy Smile

Maybe make the history list copyable (unless that's already in the Client? never tried it)?

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#39 - 2013-10-24 14:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Ozuwara
Karkur, I appreciate all of the work you do on Eve.

That said, the radial menu is not an answer to not having full functionality in the right click menu.

The right click menu is linear, and faster to navigate on the fly. The delay on the radial menu makes it practically useless for situations where timing matters, particularly PvP and many times, taking bridges. If we shorten the delay, then all of us with muscle memory in this game for not using the radial menu will be popping it up constantly. It becomes a hindrance.

I understand that you're probably quite proud of the radial menu, and if it had been in the game from day 1, players would be adjusted to it. But that is not the case, and without having any specific insight outside of watching a TON of player videos I'd say that very few players (who are any good) use the radial menu in PvP situations again due to muscle memory, and the awkwardness of a non-linear control with a delay on it.

To put it differently, if I am doing solo PvP and I am using the radial menu and my opponent is not while being evenly matched in every other regard, I am going to lose. My reaction time will always be slower than my opponent.

Please fix the right click functionality on the watchlist. Thousands of players will thank you for what I think is probably trivial dev work.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Kubiq
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-10-24 14:59:22 UTC
Kaluan Kalhaan wrote:

Other Settings To Save:

You should also consider making it possible to save the following settings as part of the Fleet Setup:

  • Fleet Name
  • Fleet Advertisement Details (or the lack thereof)
  • Free Move
  • Voice Enabled

And this reminds me: add setting Auto-Repost Fleet Advertisement for when there's a new Boss who's AFK.


+1.0