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[Corp Bookmarks] Feedback and Ideas

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Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#1 - 2011-11-02 13:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Asayanami Dei
You made a lot of people very happy when we saw the corp bookmarks released on SISI.
Big thanks to Two Step for pushing this idea for us.
We understand that it is a very early development version, but still, a couple of things that come to mind:

SCREENSHOT

Feature/Fix/Feedback list related to the first version of corp bookmarks, released on SISI on 02.11.2011

  1. There should be a new grantable role for the corp bookmarks manegment. It would make it easier for the directors to be able to handle a new role, rather then juggle arround an existing role to make it work.

  2. It would be cool if you can set access rights for different BMs folders.

  3. The corp bookmark folder should be visible in the right-click menu in space, just like any other folder

  4. supposedly it takes like 5-10(?) min to update, which is perfect, please do not change that (i guess it's a server thing anyways). Some people might rage about it, but instant-corp-wide-bookmarks is not ideal, some time-buffer is required for it not to be overpowered in my opinion.

  5. OR make it so that corp bookmarks can only be added to when uncloaked. Such would prevent cloaky scouts from providing the rest of the fleet a warpin. I suppose it depends on how the mechanics will work... BM straight to corp BM's... BM to personal and then move to corp... etc.

  6. with that periodic updating, could we get a timestamp as to when the folder last updated? This is less important if it ends up being only a 2 minute delay, but if it's a longer delay it would be really nice to know how out-of-date the folder is.

  7. If at all possible, subfolders in the corp-bookmarks folder would be an awesome addition.

  8. Another idea would be to create a second tab under the Places tab (sub-tab) rather then a special folder, so you would have a Personal tab and a Corp tab under the places tab. I don't know how would that impact the ability of copying bookmarks there, since its impossible to drag&drop with that kind of setup. Perhaps a right click option like "send to Corp"?



I will *try* update this list as feedback and ideas start being posted.


DISCLAIMER: I am a member of a long-time W-Space corporation, and we have to deal with bookmarks on a daily basis, but my opinions might not reflect the opinions of K-Space residents (what might be good for w-space might not be good for K-space and vice versa).

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Lanalor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-11-02 14:13:12 UTC
Firstly +1 to corp bookmarks.

Secondly, Asayanami has hit all the major faults with the current itteration of the corp BM system.

The best ideas there being roles associated with the corp BMs and moving them to a separate tab with sub folders with multiple levels of access.

Overall, awesome to see this coming, but does need a few changes to be useful.

Liu Ellens
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-11-02 14:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Liu Ellens
I just read about this, coming from General Discussion -- I haven't experienced it first hand yet.

Out of genuine interest: Why shouldn't they be transmitted instantly to all corp members? What is an example of an overpowered situation? (The only one that comes to my mind is the scout giving a bookmark of the found victim - but then again, the others could do a warp to that scout as fleet member anyway...?)

edit: ok thinking through that situation, that scout would pass on a bookmark of the target and not himself, who is 30+km off for safety. Ok, I can see that hot-drop-o-clock scenario. But stil... bad?

I'm ok with the other suggestions so far though.

Well, they oughta know what to do with them hogs out there for shure.

Cipreh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-11-02 14:28:31 UTC
+1 (Hell yeah, corp bookmarks)

Blog: http://lostwithoutlocal.blogspot.com Twitter: @Cipreh I am also available on Skype, details available upon request. Feel free to contact me via any of the above methods,or in-game.

Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#5 - 2011-11-02 14:28:31 UTC
Liu Ellens wrote:
I just read about this, coming from General Discussion -- I haven't experienced it first hand yet.

Out of genuine interest: Why shouldn't they be transmitted instantly to all corp members? What is an example of an overpowered situation? (The only one that comes to my mind is the scout giving a bookmark of the found victim - but then again, the others could do a warp to that scout as fleet member anyway...?)

I'm ok with the other suggestions so far though.


"If a scout can move six systems down the cluster by himself, finds a PVEing fleet and bookmarks a wreck that is 120 KM away inside a cloud of decloaking objects, then turn all those BMs into corp BMs - then the scout doesn't even need to leave grid in order to provide a squad warp to the wreck, no need to exchange BMs."

Which basically means you get instant-warpable points on grid for everyone in fleet and not even on grid.
It is a bit overpowered IMHO.

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#6 - 2011-11-02 14:35:12 UTC
I disagree with my esteemed corpmate about the update time, but non-instantaneous updating does seem reasonable if only for technical reasons. Maybe 2 minutes rather than 5-10? 5 minutes is a maximum, I would say.

However, with that periodic updating, could we get a timestamp as to when the folder last updated? This is less important if it ends up being only a 2 minute delay, but if it's a longer delay it would be really nice to know how out-of-date the folder is.

I'm also not a fan of the extra tab idea. Keeping it as a folder in the same window will make copying back and forth much easier.

I'm sure I'll have more feedback when I get to play around with it myself. However, that it is on Sisi at all is wonderful. I'm really looking forward to seeing this in the winter expansion.
Liu Ellens
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-11-02 14:36:25 UTC
Thanks for the example - in parallel I did an edit of my previous post that had me thinking further.
I see the reasoning but so far don't see strong indications for needing them non-instant, I'd still expect them to be instant.

Perhaps it's about separating cases - are you referring to BM inside missions? Those I didn't think of and I could understand a delay - I guess only salvagers would use/need them; I thought more of the PVP, WH, Strategic applications, which should be instant I'd guess.

Well, they oughta know what to do with them hogs out there for shure.

Lanalor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-02 14:52:05 UTC
If it dosent get a separate tab for whatever reason, then it at least needs sub folders, which as far as I am aware, you cant do with the current folder system.
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#9 - 2011-11-02 14:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Asayanami Dei
There are cases where instant bookmark sharing would be desirable
and there are cases where it seems overpowered.

Like I said, in my personal opinion there should be a small delay.


W-Space scenario:

Scout jumps in to a newly scanned wormhole, finds a fleet inside running an Anomaly, warps there, bookmarks a wreck closest to the hostiles.

He has now a couple of options:
- He can fly closer to the hostiles, providing a warp in with his own ship
- he can fly back to the system he came from and share the bookmark with his fleet
- he can fleet-warp the fleet to the bookmark

all of the above require fast thinking, tactics, make it interesting.

Now with instant bookmark sharing all he needs to do is bookmark a wreck, share it, and wait for his fleet to come and kill everything on grid.
No tactics, no decision making involved.
An easy WIN button.


With a small delay it is a bit different, because you may decide to do one of the previously stated 'tactics' to get your fleet on grid FASTER then the delay time is. So it still gives you a choice of what to do in a certain situation.

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#10 - 2011-11-02 14:53:01 UTC
double post...

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Tashanaka
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-02 14:54:38 UTC
jonnykefka wrote:
I disagree with my esteemed corpmate about the update time, but non-instantaneous updating does seem reasonable if only for technical reasons. Maybe 2 minutes rather than 5-10? 5 minutes is a maximum, I would say...


I'm sure it is a server issue but there is also game balance issue too. 5-minutes seems like a nice sweet spot between too OP and waiting forever.
Meltmind2
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-02 15:18:19 UTC
A 5 minute delay would be fine, it's enough to give everyone a route to the target system, but not enough to give an actual warpin on the targets, thus preventing it from being OP.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#13 - 2011-11-02 15:53:26 UTC
I think the plan is to make a new role, though CCP does have a limited number of roles (they are implemented with a bit mask, and I think on a 32-bit number, though maybe they moved to a 64-bit number now). I suggested re-using communications manager if they were low on role bits.

I think they are supposed to show up when right clicking in space, if that isn't working yet it is probably because they aren't done yet.

I am also working on getting the names of the CCP devs responsible, so they can be rewarded properly at FF... :)

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#14 - 2011-11-02 16:46:53 UTC
Two step wrote:
I think the plan is to make a new role, though CCP does have a limited number of roles (they are implemented with a bit mask, and I think on a 32-bit number, though maybe they moved to a 64-bit number now). I suggested re-using communications manager if they were low on role bits.

I think they are supposed to show up when right clicking in space, if that isn't working yet it is probably because they aren't done yet.

I am also working on getting the names of the CCP devs responsible, so they can be rewarded properly at FF... :)


The devs responsible should swim in beer at fanfest. <3

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#15 - 2011-11-02 17:08:04 UTC
Asayanami Dei wrote:
The devs responsible should swim in beer at fanfest. <3


Word on the street is that it is mostly CCP Tuxford to thank. Don't give him too much beer, or he will trip over the cord to TQ again though!

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence
The Initiative.
#16 - 2011-11-02 17:34:06 UTC
This would be great to see...

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Geldorf Drakar
Sneak Squad
Legions of Ash
#17 - 2011-11-02 18:11:13 UTC
It's time the folks in wormholes got a bit more lovin... +1 all the way. While the rest of EVE will benefit quite a bit, those of us who live in wormholes will feel the greatest positive impact.

Not that I wouldn't absolutely love to be able to use corp bookmarks to get warpins for PvP, but to be fair even a 5 min delay could be too short of a time delay. I'd actually have to say 10-15min would be ideal from the standpoint of preventing corp bookmarks from becoming overpowered.

Alternatively..... a 2-5 min delay, and make it so that corp bookmarks can only be added to when uncloaked. Such would prevent cloaky scouts from providing the rest of the fleet a warpin. I suppose it depends on how the mechanics will work... BM straight to corp BM's... BM to personal and then move to corp... etc.
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
#18 - 2011-11-02 18:16:00 UTC
I guess despite the issues raised here, I don't see why I can't instantly send X,Y,Z Coords to ANYONE I want. I realize that for historical reasons this might be strange in eve, but really if a scout and nail everything down and send bms then GREAT
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#19 - 2011-11-02 18:23:49 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
I guess despite the issues raised here, I don't see why I can't instantly send X,Y,Z Coords to ANYONE I want. I realize that for historical reasons this might be strange in eve, but really if a scout and nail everything down and send bms then GREAT


While it makes perfect sense on paper (since this is the future and what not), I think it's simply too big of an advantage.

I think that what Geldorf Drakar said makes perfect sense
Quote:
make it so that corp bookmarks can only be added to when uncloaked. Such would prevent cloaky scouts from providing the rest of the fleet a warpin. I suppose it depends on how the mechanics will work... BM straight to corp BM's... BM to personal and then move to corp... etc.


It pretty much solves the problem from my point of view, you can either risk being seen and share the bookmarks, or utilize one of the tactics mentioned already, either way, it gives you a choice, I like it and im adding it to the first post.

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Lenid Kalkin
#20 - 2011-11-02 18:30:05 UTC
I'll go ahead and second Asayanami Dei's comments on instantaneous shared bookmarks being OP for nullsec as well. A 5-15m delay seems very reasonable.
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