These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Most understated bomb shell in CCP history? New skins for how many ships?!?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Hwong Jian
Perkone
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-11-03 14:48:09 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

I put a coat of paint on a super-tanked Abaddon I've got tricked out with t2 armour rigs and boosted by a slave set. It becomes immensely attractive bait because of that "simple coat of paint" - it allows my gang to control and attract enemy fire and optimally apply our remote reps to frustrate enemy action. Please don't tell me that isn't game effecting.

I refute the notion that any content in this game can be classified as "pure vanity" "bling" of the kind you describe. The whole attraction of eve is its a player led economic sandbox where everything matters.


Ok. I'm here. I support this statement fully and completely.

Confirming that everyone uses the "Look at" before determining whether or not to attack a ship.

Confirming that FC's call targets and primaries based on the paint job on the ship.

Also confirming that regardless of tank, other ships on the battlefield or active repping, FC's have no intention of changing targets if a ship has a paint job.

No chance at all that this would be a purely vanity item, since it obviously has definable combat value.

Now for the ultimate question: Do I need to edit this post to add a /sarcasm tag?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#62 - 2011-11-03 16:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Hwong Jian wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

I put a coat of paint on a super-tanked Abaddon I've got tricked out with t2 armour rigs and boosted by a slave set. It becomes immensely attractive bait because of that "simple coat of paint" - it allows my gang to control and attract enemy fire and optimally apply our remote reps to frustrate enemy action. Please don't tell me that isn't game effecting.

I refute the notion that any content in this game can be classified as "pure vanity" "bling" of the kind you describe. The whole attraction of eve is its a player led economic sandbox where everything matters.


Ok. I'm here. I support this statement fully and completely.

Confirming that everyone uses the "Look at" before determining whether or not to attack a ship.

Confirming that FC's call targets and primaries based on the paint job on the ship.

Also confirming that regardless of tank, other ships on the battlefield or active repping, FC's have no intention of changing targets if a ship has a paint job.

No chance at all that this would be a purely vanity item, since it obviously has definable combat value.

Now for the ultimate question: Do I need to edit this post to add a /sarcasm tag?



The mistake you are making here is assuming the way you play the game (large blobwar in 0.0) is the way everyone else plays the game.

In small unit combat in empire wars/lowsec etc you will often find that high value bait ships have an important role to play in triggering combat in the first place. People will form gangs and develop plans simply to take out something juicy like a marauder or pirate faction battleship. Put a custom skin on that target and it will become all the more attractive and provide the function I described earlier.

Now sure, you can sneer at me and say that sounds like pathetic small beer penny ante little "pubbie" fights that mean nothing to the 0.0 aristocracy and I'll say you are welcome to your belief.

But there are more ways of playing this game than one - and your way is not the only way.


---Edit

Also this is Eve Online. If you think for one minute Eve pllots will not want to blow up things bought for real money as a preference you are obviously new here.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jenshae Chiroptera
#63 - 2011-11-03 16:40:16 UTC
Custom paint = cares more about ship = moar tears = ganker's delight.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#64 - 2011-11-03 16:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
Let's see if CCP actually add something to the sandbox with ship skins rather than just attempting to further macrotransaction EVE. I guess we'll see if CCP really do care for the integrity of this game.


Ranger1 wrote:
While there are those that post well reasoned arguments to support exactly what you suggest, more than a few of us would rather those that really want some extra non-game affecting bling pay for it instead of everyone getting a subscription fee increase eventually.

Then there is the hard core crowd that say "You pay your sub for server access, all else is negotiable". If we were talking about something with potential game affecting consequences or a new area of game play, they would be wrong... but we are talking about a coat of paint so there is some validity in this.
I can't agree with this, when CCP already have the PLEX system and also when I see arguments of a similar vain about how that extra microtransaction money could be used to further develop EVE gameplay that people want, that is not how it works in business.

You do realise that the EVE playerbase with their subs/PLEX'ing has allowed CCP to fund not just EVE, but two other games as well and now your trying to rationalise that they need more money from the EVE players. Take a look back at CCP's previous financial reports and you'll see that only a small percentage of the profit made actually went back into further developing EVE.

And yes I realise CCP needs to make money, but this bs about charging your playerbase yet more with microtransactions on top of what already exits (sub/PLEX) is just blatant money grubbing. Not to mention the fact that it dilutes the sandbox by removing what could be gameplay orientated content just to slap it in the cash shop.


Not to trash talk you, but your entire point falls thru when you realize that most people DO use PLEX purchased with ISK to purchase NeX items. If you are money rich, but ISK poor... fine, spend the money. But for most they will use ISK to purchase items like this, which also increased demand for PLEX for those wishing to sell PLEX for ISK in the first place.

And Jade, with much respect for your opinion, but you're reaching.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Eiyla Rindour
Truth Behind Omega
#65 - 2011-11-04 07:56:59 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
V3 is the key that unlocks the good stuff. It's not the same as a remodeling for all the ships but it allows the art team to make ship skins and opens up the possibility for custom logos on ships once all the ships have it :)

Bolded and italicized fpr emphasis. We aren't talking about full skins here people. V3 allows the art team to make more detailed skins for ships, while the technology also allows the possibility of adding LOGOS to ships. Nowhere does that post say we will get to make our own custom skins.
mkint
#66 - 2011-11-04 08:04:12 UTC
Eiyla Rindour wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
V3 is the key that unlocks the good stuff. It's not the same as a remodeling for all the ships but it allows the art team to make ship skins and opens up the possibility for custom logos on ships once all the ships have it :)

Bolded and italicized fpr emphasis. We aren't talking about full skins here people. V3 allows the art team to make more detailed skins for ships, while the technology also allows the possibility of adding LOGOS to ships. Nowhere does that post say we will get to make our own custom skins.

You're right. The custom skins (referred to by CCP as "paintjobs") were talked about in fanfest, dev blogs, videos, and dev posts, but not in the recent discussions. And at fanfest they said V3 is what they need to get implemented game-wide to be able to do paintjobs. But to be clear, they haven't talked about paintjobs within the past 36 minutes.

On a less trollish note, also in CCP's public discussions is the TTP factor of completely custom skins. And that means you probably won't ever get skin colored skins.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2011-11-04 09:50:57 UTC
Chi Ftele wrote:
[quote=CCP Guard]

so there had better be the option to turn logos off, at least for other players' ships

maybe even a LOL button for spotting those who have no taste at all - "primary the dictor that looks fingerpainted"

also, isn't the hello kitty thing a little played out?



Seriously? You can't even see other peoples ships? They are tiny little specs in space. Why on earth would we ever need an option to turn off their paint jobs or logos?

Talk about a waste of resources.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#68 - 2011-11-04 09:58:48 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
Let's see if CCP actually add something to the sandbox with ship skins rather than just attempting to further macrotransaction EVE. I guess we'll see if CCP really do care for the integrity of this game.


Ranger1 wrote:
While there are those that post well reasoned arguments to support exactly what you suggest, more than a few of us would rather those that really want some extra non-game affecting bling pay for it instead of everyone getting a subscription fee increase eventually.

Then there is the hard core crowd that say "You pay your sub for server access, all else is negotiable". If we were talking about something with potential game affecting consequences or a new area of game play, they would be wrong... but we are talking about a coat of paint so there is some validity in this.
I can't agree with this, when CCP already have the PLEX system and also when I see arguments of a similar vain about how that extra microtransaction money could be used to further develop EVE gameplay that people want, that is not how it works in business.

You do realise that the EVE playerbase with their subs/PLEX'ing has allowed CCP to fund not just EVE, but two other games as well and now your trying to rationalise that they need more money from the EVE players. Take a look back at CCP's previous financial reports and you'll see that only a small percentage of the profit made actually went back into further developing EVE.

And yes I realise CCP needs to make money, but this bs about charging your playerbase yet more with microtransactions on top of what already exits (sub/PLEX) is just blatant money grubbing. Not to mention the fact that it dilutes the sandbox by removing what could be gameplay orientated content just to slap it in the cash shop.


Not to trash talk you, but your entire point falls thru when you realize that most people DO use PLEX purchased with ISK to purchase NeX items. If you are money rich, but ISK poor... fine, spend the money. But for most they will use ISK to purchase items like this, which also increased demand for PLEX for those wishing to sell PLEX for ISK in the first place.

And Jade, with much respect for your opinion, but you're reaching.

Okay, two points based on your reply.

1) Regardless of how you cut or dice it, it is still microtransactions no matter what the rapping they come in is and as per your own example it's PLEX/ISK. The end result is the same and when boiled right down is still a microtransaction as it has a real world dollar value via Aurum from PLEX.
2) Based on your own comments regarding PLEX and ISK being used to buy these vanity items, tell me again why there is a need for Aurum?

The whole NEX Store items could have been delivered to the playerbase via sandbox gameplay and still be a PLEX/ISK sink if CCP had of chosen that path. I find it dissapointing when NEX Store items for example could have instead been purchased with LP and ISK that also required you to maintain a high rating for a certain faction before they could be worn. Then when someone saw that character the item would have meaning and would have added something to the game.

I'll ask you this, what would you be more proud to show off, something you have worked hard at acquiring or something you purchased with no effort involved?

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#69 - 2011-11-04 10:06:14 UTC
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
Let's see if CCP actually add something to the sandbox with ship skins rather than just attempting to further macrotransaction EVE. I guess we'll see if CCP really do care for the integrity of this game.


Ranger1 wrote:
While there are those that post well reasoned arguments to support exactly what you suggest, more than a few of us would rather those that really want some extra non-game affecting bling pay for it instead of everyone getting a subscription fee increase eventually.

Then there is the hard core crowd that say "You pay your sub for server access, all else is negotiable". If we were talking about something with potential game affecting consequences or a new area of game play, they would be wrong... but we are talking about a coat of paint so there is some validity in this.
I can't agree with this, when CCP already have the PLEX system and also when I see arguments of a similar vain about how that extra microtransaction money could be used to further develop EVE gameplay that people want, that is not how it works in business.

You do realise that the EVE playerbase with their subs/PLEX'ing has allowed CCP to fund not just EVE, but two other games as well and now your trying to rationalise that they need more money from the EVE players. Take a look back at CCP's previous financial reports and you'll see that only a small percentage of the profit made actually went back into further developing EVE.

And yes I realise CCP needs to make money, but this bs about charging your playerbase yet more with microtransactions on top of what already exits (sub/PLEX) is just blatant money grubbing. Not to mention the fact that it dilutes the sandbox by removing what could be gameplay orientated content just to slap it in the cash shop.


Not to trash talk you, but your entire point falls thru when you realize that most people DO use PLEX purchased with ISK to purchase NeX items. If you are money rich, but ISK poor... fine, spend the money. But for most they will use ISK to purchase items like this, which also increased demand for PLEX for those wishing to sell PLEX for ISK in the first place.

And Jade, with much respect for your opinion, but you're reaching.

Okay, two points based on your reply.

1) Regardless of how you cut or dice it, it is still microtransactions no matter what the rapping they come in is and as per your own example it's PLEX/ISK. The end result is the same and when boiled right down is still a microtransaction as it has a real world dollar value via Aurum from PLEX.
2) Based on your own comments regarding PLEX and ISK being used to buy these vanity items, tell me again why there is a need for Aurum?

The whole NEX Store items could have been delivered to the playerbase via sandbox gameplay and still be a PLEX/ISK sink if CCP had of chosen that path. I find it dissapointing when NEX Store items for example could have instead been purchased with LP and ISK that also required you to maintain a high rating for a certain faction before they could be worn. Then when someone saw that character the item would have meaning and would have added something to the game.

I'll ask you this, what would you be more proud to show off, something you have worked hard at acquiring or something you purchased with no effort involved?


This is something we never really saw justified properly .. what was the point of NeX? I don't think enough hard questions were asked. I would like to have seen the CSM ask some specific questions about the real point of this thing given CCP already had an extra income revenue via (MT) in PLEX.

About the only half-explanation we've had was that it was an experiment into the world of "vanity" microtransactions providing experience they needed for Dust and WOD. Right then. If it was an experiment when do we get to declare it was an unnsuccessful one and have it removed from our game?




The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Chelone
Outside The Asylum
#70 - 2011-11-04 10:06:56 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Doe anyone remember when the argument against Ship Skins and Logo's was that they would be Pink with Hello Kitty Logo's.


I made that argument about 5 seconds after the first time I heard someone mention "custom skins."

If they allow completely player-designable skins, ala the cars in the N64 game "Top Gear Rally", Eve is going to become a joke. The stupidest looking skins will be designed and 'lawl'ed at just because people can. Hello Kitty, cotton candy or puke green, all-black, graffiti, rude and/or lame culture references/bitmaps, and of course people painting a phallus on everything. Maybe only... 30% of the player base will do this, but it will be enough to take away any sense of immersion or believability in the game.

Now if you can have selectable skins designed by the art department, that would be fine.

Or am I missing something, and there is already a Hello Kitty selectable skin planned? Tell me I'm just being paranoid, please...
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2011-11-04 10:14:28 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Arugas Koken wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
V3 is the key that unlocks the good stuff. It's not the same as a remodeling for all the ships but it allows the art team to make ship skins and opens up the possibility for custom logos on ships once all the ships have it :)


can u confirm that this wont require AUR.


It should require AUR. Its completely cosmetic.


No.

I already paid my subscription. CCP knows now that double dipping is bad.. mmkay..


This. Even if you forget about the "vanity" affecting gameplay there's still the problem of ccp making their customers pay twice.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#72 - 2011-11-04 10:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Bischopt wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Arugas Koken wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
V3 is the key that unlocks the good stuff. It's not the same as a remodeling for all the ships but it allows the art team to make ship skins and opens up the possibility for custom logos on ships once all the ships have it :)


can u confirm that this wont require AUR.


It should require AUR. Its completely cosmetic.


No.

I already paid my subscription. CCP knows now that double dipping is bad.. mmkay..


This. Even if you forget about the "vanity" affecting gameplay there's still the problem of ccp making their customers pay twice.


And of course categorizing everything that is "cosmetic" as optional and requiring aurum to activate on your client is a bit of a stupid move when we're getting engine trails back and new nebulas and whatnot. Does MT-fanboi think we should pay aurum for everything that is only "cosmetic" in Eve?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom