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Missions & Complexes

 
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Loot Spew 4 Months Later

First post
Author
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#201 - 2014-02-20 20:32:10 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Praise be to Bob.

Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#202 - 2014-02-20 20:57:33 UTC
Ougaa Baalstomp wrote:
...but I guess the fat neck-bearded botters will cry forever until anything resembing definite human interaction is removed from the game.

;)


You interact with humans by clicking on **** that flies past you?
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#203 - 2014-02-20 21:09:11 UTC
So basically T2 rig prices are going back up to unaffordable, and the frequency with which they're used on subcaps is going back to once in a blue moon. Enjoy your 16mil a pop T2 med trims for as long as you can I guess, before they shoot back up to 70mil each.
Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#204 - 2014-02-20 21:13:05 UTC
Alundil
Rolled Out
#205 - 2014-02-20 21:49:50 UTC
Good change, long overdue.

I'm right behind you

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#206 - 2014-02-20 22:41:43 UTC
Chan'aar wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Praise be to Bob.

Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer.

not just you m8

I should buy an Ishtar.

Salvos Rhoska
#207 - 2014-02-20 22:48:43 UTC
So, whats the next thing to be made even easier?
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2014-02-20 23:43:36 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.




I love you Affinity
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#209 - 2014-02-21 00:02:20 UTC
Abramul wrote:

Another option is to just disable cargo scanning, this would probably reduce time efficiency.


Oh hell no. I love being able to cargo scan. Furthermore, it reduces the supply of materials in low demand and increases the supply of materials in high demand. Not being able to would reinforce the phenomena of 90% of loot being complete junk.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#210 - 2014-02-21 00:34:39 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I feel like there's a disconnect here. Is fine motor control to click moving dots on the screen just that hardhard for everyone?


No. There are other issues such as latency, crowded UI on a small screen, overloaded commands (double-click to approach the loot container, or miss the container and end up sending your ship in the wrong direction because you double-clicked in space), camera clipping, other objects and debris getting in the way, all of this in addition to trying to click a three pixel target on a 2600 pixel-wide screen with mouse movement at 1000DPI.

Nothing else in EVE requires fine motor control at this scale.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#211 - 2014-02-21 00:35:32 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
So, whats the next thing to be made even easier?


Did you complain when CCP took NPCs away from exploration sites? Or are you just whining because all the other hipsters are?
Salvos Rhoska
#212 - 2014-02-21 00:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Mara Rinn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
So, whats the next thing to be made even easier?


Did you complain when CCP took NPCs away from exploration sites? Or are you just whining because all the other hipsters are?


Thats why I run primarily Combat Exploration sites.
Want to try again?

The micro and challenge in loot spew is minimal. Like others in this thread, Im finding it difficult to understand that some people seem to lack the manual dexterity and short term memorisation and data processing capacity to click a moving object about once every 5s (and then blame the game for that). Its something any able bodied individual without a personal medical condition should be capable of. Perhaps my perspeftive on this is skewed and I have an unrealistic expectation of peoples micro skills from my years as an RTS player. Thats entirely possible.

As to complaints about their hardware not being able to handle the strain of loot spew, there are obvious solutiins to that, and those are incumbent on the individual and their own hardware. My PC is a 4yr old piece ofndusty wreckage, yet it can handle the "load" just fine. EVE is famously tolerant of older hardware as is. As to peoples internet connectiosn, well, its an online game. You sort of need a good connection to participate fully.

Furthermore, there is an inherent and blatant irony in your post that its amazing you seem to be unable to introspect upon. Namely that Im not the one who whined about loot spew. Im fine with how loot spew is. Direct your comments about "whining" to those who are, infact, "whining" that it is not ok.

Nor am I a hipster by any stretch of the imagination or even extended definition of the term. Nor do I appreciate the intentionaly personal negative insult you try to level that as. Would it matter if I was a Hipster? Or a a Hindu? Or a Liberal? Or anything else entireky personal and unrelated to the tooic at hand?

If CCP changes it, for whatever reason they see fit, that is their prerogative. I wont leave or threaten to or any such nonsense.
But that doesnt mean I have to agree with it, or think that it is necessary, or that I shouldnt express my perspective on it as have others here.
Beef Hammer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#213 - 2014-02-21 01:32:33 UTC
Honestly I figured it would be easier to just remove the ability to cargo scan the cans, and have all cans have 1 name, like "spew can" or whatever makes sense. Eliminates cherry picking.

But the loot spew cans do suck in general.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#214 - 2014-02-21 03:36:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The micro and challenge in loot spew is minimal. Like others in this thread, Im finding it difficult to understand that some people seem to lack the manual dexterity and short term memorisation and data processing capacity to click a moving object about once every 5s (and then blame the game for that). Its something any able bodied individual without a personal medical condition should be capable of. Perhaps my perspeftive on this is skewed and I have an unrealistic expectation of peoples micro skills from my years as an RTS player. Thats entirely possible.


Okay, now step back a little from your ad hominem against the entire community and think about this: what are people complaining about? Is it that none of us can click the little targets? Or is it simply that having just played the 3D mini game of "move the blue ball over the red ball then click and wait" then the mini game of "click these buttons until something happens", we are now faced with yet another mini game of "chase the bloody cans"?

For most people, the dislike for the loot spew is simply that it is inconvenient. It is an artificial inconvenience in much the same way that multi-mega-hitpoint structures are an annoying inconvenience in the null sec sov wars. The experience is incongruent with the rest of the game. It's like you're in the middle of a Counterstrike match and in order to shoot the target with the sniper rifle, you need to point the sniper rifle at the target, then play a quick game of checkers, then play jumping jacks. Some people will enjoy the experience because they're happy to vacuum up any swill that gets dumped in their trough.

For me, the fun in exploration used to be that it was actually difficult to find the sites in the first place. These days you just open the probing interface and dump the probes on top of the places where the game has already told you the sites are located. 2AU spread, scan. Most sites are now 100%, some sites you'll need to tighten the spread to 1AU or 0.5AU. There's no challenge to it any more. CCP took away DSPs because having a list of what sites were in systems was trivialising the content; then CCP gave us the system scanner because having the game hold your hand and direct you to place your probes on the little X is (apparently) not trivialising the content.

I don't care for the hacking mini game, and I find the loot spew an annoying diversion. From the perspective of the PvPer, the aim of an exploration site is to keep the explorer visible in space long enough to probe down and scram. The old system of cycling a module was much better at achieving this than the modern system: I can hack the can and just click the parts and data containers, then disappear. There's no finesse to hacking: just keep clicking hacking nodes until you defeat the system core.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Furthermore, there is an inherent and blatant irony in your post that its amazing you seem to be unable to introspect upon. Namely that Im not the one who whined about loot spew. Im fine with how loot spew is. Direct your comments about "whining" to those who are, infact, "whining" that it is not ok.


You complained that loot spew was being removed and that this would trivialise the content. I did not misrepresent your opinion, you are simply putting words in my mouth because you took offence at being labelled a bandwagon rider.

You run combat sites: is that because the NPCs were removed from mag & radar sites, or because you never ran mag and radar sites?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#215 - 2014-02-21 03:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Bear in mind whilst you are doing this the distraction and temptation associated with the loot spew itself is an important part of the PVP surrounding these sites.

Just having the can open and press loot all, means every single task associated with hacking can be done as

1 - d-scan
2 - check overview
3 - perform single action
4 - goto 1

I don't actually have to think whilst hacking, ie all I need do to implement my strategy is remember where I strarted.
Paul Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#216 - 2014-02-21 04:00:16 UTC
I feel like the mini-game works well overall, but that the gap between skill level 4 and skill level 5 should be narrowed.

Right now, at skill level 4 in the analyzer skill you will have 80 coherence while skill level 5 plus the increase to a T2 analyzer that comes with it will boost that to 110. That's not quite 50% and by itself could be reasonable.

The problem occurs with the defenses that you will encounter in 0.0 sites. At skill 4, you have 30 strength and at skill 5 you get to 40 strength with the T2 analyzer.

Here are the defenses commonly seen in 0.0 sites and the amount of damage that will be taken by someone with level 4 and level 5 attacking with no utilities:

50/40 - both level 4 and 5 will take 40 damage
80/20 - level 4 takes 40 damage, level 5 takes 20 damage
80/10 repair - level 4 takes 20 damage and 2 ticks of repair, level 5 takes 10 damage and 1 tick of repair
60/15 suppressor - level 4 takes 45 damage, level 5 takes 30 damage

So, at skill level 5 you have 37.5% more coherence but also take far less damage destroying defenses. This makes these sites very painful for a character that is only trained to skill level 4 as encountering a defense before finding a utility can doom an attempt.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#217 - 2014-02-21 04:18:38 UTC
Paul Maken wrote:
I feel like the mini-game works well overall, but that the gap between skill level 4 and skill level 5 should be narrowed.

Right now, at skill level 4 in the analyzer skill you will have 80 coherence while skill level 5 plus the increase to a T2 analyzer that comes with it will boost that to 110. That's not quite 50% and by itself could be reasonable.

The problem occurs with the defenses that you will encounter in 0.0 sites. At skill 4, you have 30 strength and at skill 5 you get to 40 strength with the T2 analyzer.

Here are the defenses commonly seen in 0.0 sites and the amount of damage that will be taken by someone with level 4 and level 5 attacking with no utilities:

50/40 - both level 4 and 5 will take 40 damage
80/20 - level 4 takes 40 damage, level 5 takes 20 damage
80/10 repair - level 4 takes 20 damage and 2 ticks of repair, level 5 takes 10 damage and 1 tick of repair
60/15 suppressor - level 4 takes 45 damage, level 5 takes 30 damage

So, at skill level 5 you have 37.5% more coherence but also take far less damage destroying defenses. This makes these sites very painful for a character that is only trained to skill level 4 as encountering a defense before finding a utility can doom an attempt.


Except that someone with level 4 who plays properly can still get all the yellow cores almost all the time, and the red cores out at least half the time,meaning they'll only lose 25% of the hardest cans, and suffer a bit more time delay.

As I routinely catch young pilots in these miniprofs, if I am late into the miniprof, I'd expect to see 1 ruin missing, and 2 done for the site that has 3.

Any improvement in the skills and hacking for level 4 skills would make investment in level 5 largely pointless as level 4 is at the bottom of the extremely sensitive area due to the replay option.

Nanny State
Doomheim
#218 - 2014-02-21 05:16:32 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


http://giphy.com/gifs/9yGa9mD2gyUnu

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#219 - 2014-02-21 07:10:13 UTC
Quote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Mail me your adress i will send you a bottle of good polish vodka Big smile

Quote:
For me, the fun in exploration used to be that it was actually difficult to find the sites in the first place.


That's what exploration should be.


"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Salvos Rhoska
#220 - 2014-02-21 09:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Since people seem to be emphasising that the loot spew is a third supefluous minigame ontop of already the first of probing the site, and the second of hacking it, how about this:

Suggestion:
Add two buttons to the hack interface that become available after a succesful hack:

-Button 1: Access Node:
---You can directly loot from the nodes cargo hold a smaller percentage of randomly determined cans from the site (from the selection that otherwise would have spewed). You have no control over what cans are randomly selected.

Button 2: Eject Node:
---Cans spew as now, and player can play the spew minigame for a better controlled chance at desired cans from the normal spew mechanic.

In this way the added risk/efforf of playing the spew minigame is retained, and those players who refuse to play it, or are otherwise somehow incapable of playing it, can still do the sites, albeit with reduced effort and hence reduced direct control of the rewards.

This would be consistent with risk/reward systems in EVE overall, and "fair" to both sides of the argument.
To the anti-spew folk, in that since they wont play the spew game, they get potentially reduced reward, as commensurate with their reduced effort and associated risk.
And to the pro-spew folk, since they invest the time, effort and risk of playing the additional stage of the minigame.