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Missions & Complexes

 
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Loot Spew 4 Months Later

First post
Author
Hiton Kado
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#181 - 2014-02-20 16:23:24 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining.
KiithNaabal
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#182 - 2014-02-20 16:47:46 UTC  |  Edited by: KiithNaabal
CCP Affinity wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.



not trolling :)


What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed?


Haven't decided yet :)


Really, i don't care about loot spew, what i do care about is time spent in the relic site as opposed to time spent scanning.

If time spent scanning is crazy high as opposed to actually getting the loot, there are less opportunities for ganks. And ganks = fun. Contesting a relic site = fun. So less time spent in a relic site = less fun.

Loot spew was implemented to encourage cooperative work. It does not, because people just get alts (like myself) to run relics and just log the alt off in hostile null, but i would be all for somehow forcing players to spend more time in a relic site.
Altaen
Wanderlust Caravan
#183 - 2014-02-20 16:48:18 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.



not trolling :)


What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed?


I'm sorry, I'm dumb...but what implant is this? And if you don't know the name, what does it do at least?
Salvos Rhoska
#184 - 2014-02-20 16:50:21 UTC
Thanks whiners.

Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#185 - 2014-02-20 16:54:39 UTC
Hiton Kado wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining.
"Working for your loot" is not clicking as fast as possible on little boxes moving around the spacescape, behind my overview windows, etc. It was an absolutely terrible mechanic that doesn't really fit well with the way Eve is played or interacted with. The "working for your loot" part is actually the hacking minigame. It didn't make any sense to have someone work the hacking grid then have to be penalized by loot flying in every direction.

Honestly, CCP could keep the loot spew mechanic, so as to not waste those work hours creating it, but just have it trigger on an unsuccessful hack. So, you can hack the container successfully and you get a loot window. Unsuccessfully and you get to scramble getting some loot. Maybe you'll get nothing, maybe you'll get something. It's a small consolation prize to not having your skills up high enough. Plus, it lessens the skill cliff for new pilots, since even if they are unsuccessful, they can still loot something until they get better skilled.

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#186 - 2014-02-20 17:19:11 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

This is awful news. The loot spew is a step in reducing the dull mindless pressure-less nature of exploration. Additionally, it nicely incorporated piloting skill, pre-scanning knowledge, spatial awareness/instincts -- all good stuff that meant that doing/practicing it for longer yields better results, giving exploration a "profession" aspect.

Removing the spew turns it back into the old hacking, except instead of rats there's a minigame in which success largely depends on luck.

I really hope that the loot spew is replaced with something equally engaging.

Were it up to me, the sites would have much larger amounts of loot, keep loot spew, and add rats that respawn (and stack up if ignored). Make it a challenge! If the efficacy of doing something in Eve isn't affected by watching a movie on the side, it's not challenging or engaging enough.

Another idea: remove loot spew but change the hacking minigame to have time pressure and limitations, and extra rewards for performing really well. Something similar to the one in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Whatever you do, please please please do not make it so boring and easy that I can browse Reddit and watch cat videos on the side.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Daishi Kurita
CK-0FF
My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
#187 - 2014-02-20 17:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Daishi Kurita
Speaking on loot. PLEASE start having Data and Ship Interfaces be destroyed. Ship interfaces for example used to be the main reason to run hacking sites; after years of them dropping and not a single one being destroyed they are literally worthless. I don't even know why they are in the loot table anymore.

This suggestion was made by many players YEARS ago, that CCP has done nothing to such an obvious problem makes me think you guys don't play your own game.

Hacking loot has been so terrible for so long it blows my mind. Why even adjust the mechanics if no one is going to run the sites. Personally I see data sites building up in 0.0 with no one touching them for days. I have run dozens of the best sites and most of the time I receive less then 5 million total loot. So now I just skip them like everyone else.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#188 - 2014-02-20 17:42:07 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Hiton Kado wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining.
"Working for your loot" is not clicking as fast as possible on little boxes moving around the spacescape, behind my overview windows, etc. It was an absolutely terrible mechanic that doesn't really fit well with the way Eve is played or interacted with. **The "working for your loot" part is actually the hacking minigame.** It didn't make any sense to have someone work the hacking grid then have to be penalized by loot flying in every direction.


Emphasis added. This is as it should be; I wish that CCP would iterate on the hacking game and make it an actual challenge. Give us the scripted/pre-loaded utilities, give us some challenge in the minigame that requires skill moreso than skill points. Make it so that the longer you spend in that can, and the more successful and skilled you are, the better the loot you get. Make it multi-layered, active, and engaging.

I know that it won't happen anytime soon, if ever, because CCP has moved on to making round after round of broken/useless deployables, long term plans of jumpgates to nowhere, and leaving the ship rebalance half done.

Quote:

Honestly, CCP could keep the loot spew mechanic, so as to not waste those work hours creating it, but just have it trigger on an unsuccessful hack. So, you can hack the container successfully and you get a loot window. Unsuccessfully and you get to scramble getting some loot. Maybe you'll get nothing, maybe you'll get something. It's a small consolation prize to not having your skills up high enough. Plus, it lessens the skill cliff for new pilots, since even if they are unsuccessful, they can still loot something until they get better skilled.


This, along with a glorious explosion that causes AOE damage would be great. It's the best suggested use of loot diarrhea so far.
Bayta Charante
#189 - 2014-02-20 17:55:41 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
"Working for your loot" is not clicking as fast as possible on little boxes moving around the spacescape, behind my overview windows, etc. It was an absolutely terrible mechanic that doesn't really fit well with the way Eve is played or interacted with. The "working for your loot" part is actually the hacking minigame. It didn't make any sense to have someone work the hacking grid then have to be penalized by loot flying in every direction.

But you have to pay attention to the names of the cans, and relate them. For the first time you don't have to look at the overview to do something, and just watch the real GAME, not the spreadsheet.

Hiton Kado wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining.


Yeah, I agree with that. That's what I always said to my corp mates: SCAN and then grab ONLY the containers related to what you saw.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Thanks whiners.

Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.


I don't understand how they got so much attention.

Petrus Blackshell wrote:


I really hope that the loot spew is replaced with something equally engaging.

Were it up to me, the sites would have much larger amounts of loot, keep loot spew, and add rats that respawn (and stack up if ignored). Make it a challenge! If the efficacy of doing something in Eve isn't affected by watching a movie on the side, it's not challenging or engaging enough.

Another idea: remove loot spew but change the hacking minigame to have time pressure and limitations, and extra rewards for performing really well.

Whatever you do, please please please do not make it so boring and easy that I can browse Reddit and watch cat videos on the side.


If they add rats the usual cov ops frigates won't be able to do much. The only vessels suitable for the task would be the SOE ones... I don't know you, but I wouldn't like that.

The time limit is a good one. I agree with you: it should be something challenging something that you must pay attention on what you are doing. Else it will became mining2.0

0666: read and write for everyone!

Kern Hotha
#190 - 2014-02-20 17:56:34 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


I'm happy to read this, because this part of the exploration profession revamp really reduced the enjoyment of the overall activity.

We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.

Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)

Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#191 - 2014-02-20 18:05:06 UTC
Thank you CCP. <3
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#192 - 2014-02-20 18:06:36 UTC
I feel like there's a disconnect here. Is fine motor control to click moving dots on the screen just that hardhard for everyone?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#193 - 2014-02-20 18:18:36 UTC
Bayta Charante wrote:


Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Thanks whiners.

Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.


I don't understand how they got so much attention.

I dont think you under stand how long this has been being asked to be removed.

I will give you a small hint, it started in the testing thread about 1~2 months before Odyssey was released. There was only 1 or 2 testers that liked the loot spew. All the rest said do not ship the feature, the hacking mini-games was enough.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Helios ni-Pharos
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#194 - 2014-02-20 18:24:17 UTC
Altaen wrote:
[quote=Steve Ronuken]

I'm sorry, I'm dumb...but what implant is this? And if you don't know the name, what does it do at least?


http://eve.battleclinic.com/item_database.php?id=i27260

Boltorano
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#195 - 2014-02-20 19:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Boltorano
I don't do hacking sites often, but this is a good change.

No need to reduce the loot table, just remove the ability to cargo scan to balance it out.

How can you call it "exploration" if people can see which cans are the good ones before they even try to open them?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#196 - 2014-02-20 19:47:47 UTC
Bayta Charante wrote:


the usual cov ops frigates


That's because the usual covops frigates used to do this are shitfits.

Data and Relic sites should have variance beyond what they do now; there should be easier ones in high and low that benefit a lightly tanked covops/T1 scanner, and give low level loot as a result. Faster, time gated ones in null that let a covops sneak in and out but reward quick hacking skill would be great, too. There should also be much more difficult ones that spawn rats, require PVE combat, and give better loot to benefit the higher SP SoE or T3 pilot.
Ougaa Baalstomp
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#197 - 2014-02-20 19:57:11 UTC
Personally I liked the loot spew.

Felt more of an 'out in space' mechanic where you actually had to do something, than the usual 'consult spreadsheet and click for reward' bullshit.

Personally I hope it gets a reprieve and stays ...but I guess the fat neck-bearded botters will cry forever until anything resembing definite human interaction is removed from the game.

;)
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#198 - 2014-02-20 20:11:36 UTC
Glad to hear the loot spew mechanic is going away. It's a time sensitive activity that has a lot of problems that I don't think can be fixed with the current game mechanics (server tick). I've logged a number of bugs where clicking on the second loot can doesn't register, so you waste valuable seconds trying to find another one to click to get it to register. Lag and ship agility also play into account here.

Also that some of the hacking containers in the dronelands are oversized and the collision mechanic doesn't allow you to get close enough to them to properly grab the loot spew cans.

I expect a reduction to the amount of loot in each can to make up for the loot spew mechanic not being there. The idea was that you wouldn't be able to grab all of it by yourself (bring a friend), but solo you'd still end up with theoretically the same amount of loot as before the spew mechanic, based on the items that are lost. I know this has been explained a while back about the way the mind handles potential loss, even when you're not actually getting less loot. Hopefully this fixes some of the large drops in market prices we've seen for a lot of the valuable salvage and other items found via exploration. I say that after dumping my stock a few weeks ago ;_;

I've done exploration sites bringing along a friend who is just getting started, and it isn't much fun for them, since they just get dragged around and sit there while I do the minigame until we're ready to go all Hungry Hungry Hippos on the loot spew cans. A better way for a co-operative mechanic would be nice - right now sometimes we'll bring multiple people into sites to watch our backs if there are neutrals in system, but they don't contribute anything to the minigame or collection.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#199 - 2014-02-20 20:12:14 UTC
Bayta Charante wrote:
If they add rats the usual cov ops frigates won't be able to do much.

Covops frigates are surpassed in nearly all categories by their T1 variants, and are quite useless outside some very niche scouting, and running these complexes. They are far overdue for a rebalance, and balancing anything around them before that happens is a bad idea.

The rats I envision would make you have to actually make tradeoffs when you fit your ship, and for there to be other choices in ships to use than scanner ships and SoE ships. It's OK if SoE ships are the best at it; it's what they were designed for, after all. As is right now, though, being able to do the same stuff in hisec, lowsec and nullsec with literally no change in your ship or fit is poor in terms of variety and "interestingness".

How is a couple npc frigates spawning every minute or so in hisec, a couple cruisers in lowsec, and a BC and BS in nullsec, stacking up for a couple cycles if you don't clear them out as they arrive? In hisec the drones of a scanning frig would easily dispatch the rats, in lowsec a cruiser works just fine, etc. With the advent of mobile depots, you don't even have to have a core probe launcher on your ship all the time.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2014-02-20 20:18:48 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:



yes, we will balance the loot tables accordingly and will take another look at the loot in general :)


When you do this, please could you take a look at how this affects COSMOS sites?

Since loot spew came in, there are items that seem to have literally disappeared from the game, such as the Yan Jung Tachyon Stetoscope. I've never even seen it appear on a cargo scan, let alone in an actual loot spew container.

COSMOS sites were pretty screwed with loot spew anyway, as there was no pattern or reason to what items appeared in what containers.

Anyway, this is very welcome news - thanks for the heads up.