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A video that shows exactly why Falcon (and/or ECM) needs a nerf.

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Maliandra
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-10-21 01:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Maliandra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOzR0tEXjhA

As you can see a single falcon was able to keep the majority of the gang target jammed for the duration of the fight. That is a severe balance issue. Yes you can fit ECCM but that doesn't magically mean ECM/Falcon are balanced.

Let's assume for a second we take scenarios where all the target ships are not fitted for any EWAR reduction. Now let's consider the other forms of EWAR and T2 electronic ships. You can certainly do anything from cap neuting to target range reduction to the point where you take 1 ship out of the fight. Maybe, maybe 2 ships. But that's it. You can never, with any other electronic ship, do anything as effective as was seen in this video.

Does that mean Falcons cannot be killed? Of course not. In this case the pilot kept range. Being able to be killed does not mean balanced.

Does a Falcon always give you the best advantage? Again, no, and that is why other ship types get used on occasion. But that does not mean it's none the less balanced. As stated the balance issue comes from the fact that no other EWAR setup has the capability to be as effective as the Falcon does at their best.

The effectiveness of each given EWAR setup within an ideal scenario specific to that EWAR type should always equate to the effectiveness of the other EWAR setups within ideal scenarios for those EWAR types. The same should apply to the least ideal scenarios; all forms of EWAR being as ineffective as one another.

I would love to see them balance it like this.
Maximillan Lancaster
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-10-21 01:27:01 UTC
Nerf this, buff that, berf this, nuff that

I'm sure CCP programmers live 10 years less than the average life expectancy.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-10-21 01:37:01 UTC
Electronic feedback module. Midslot, if activated while jammed, has a % with various skills chance to deal direct damage to the ewar module that is jamming you. As in you could burn out enemy jammers.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-10-21 01:40:52 UTC
There are a sufficient quantity of counters already in game.
It's not CCP's problem if the players don't use them effectively.
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-10-21 01:50:48 UTC
Eos bonus increases sensor strength by a fair ammount.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-21 01:55:17 UTC
Krimishkev wrote:
Eos bonus increases sensor strength by a fair ammount.



Oh, there are also some skill added a few patches back for sensor strength too. In case other :bittervets: like me didn't know. (I didn't know about them for awhile)

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Tiffany Kautsuo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-10-21 02:22:13 UTC
Who knew. Rng is a bad mechanic
Maliandra
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-10-21 02:23:55 UTC
Maximillan Lancaster wrote:
Nerf this, buff that, berf this, nuff that

I'm sure CCP programmers live 10 years less than the average life expectancy.
Thanks for adding to the discussion.

I love how some people come on a forum just to act like idiots in order to feel better about themselves.

Amusing, really. Big smile
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-10-21 02:33:38 UTC
Should have been around when Falcons were jamming you from 150km away, easily.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#10 - 2013-10-21 04:04:27 UTC
I have to say that the falcon is the most annoying ship in the game.

But this video demonstrates nothing. If anything that was OP in (which it wasn't) it was the power of the neut legion, that is what what contributed the most to winning that fight.

1- The jams were consistently failing and only landed on all of them maybe once or twice is this very very very long fight.

2- They knew exactly what ships they are facing, where he had full caldari jammers, a luxury you don't have in most other fights.

3- ECM is chance based, meaning that in a long fight, statistically, he will land all of his jams at least once.

4- His targets were pve fitted, probably multiboxed and with no discernible prop mod (usual rr fits) and if they were one of them could have easily reached the falcon and killed it in a couple of hits. In relation to the massive tank of the legion and the fact is that its neuts were the most contributing factor in winning the fight, I think you chose the wrong video to display how "op" the falcon is.

annoying =/= overpowered

I am in no way stating that the state of ecm is good now, all I am saying I didn't see anything that requires the falcon to be nerfed in this video.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#11 - 2013-10-21 04:10:55 UTC
Wasn't Falcon already nerfed? I mean wasn't ECM already nerfed?

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Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-21 04:16:12 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Wasn't Falcon already nerfed? I mean wasn't ECM already nerfed?


ECM and Falcon are one and the same.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#13 - 2013-10-21 05:11:41 UTC
PLZ NERF ECM SO OP #DISHONOUR #DEATH2ALLFALCONS

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#14 - 2013-10-21 05:25:15 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Wasn't Falcon already nerfed? I mean wasn't ECM already nerfed?

ECM and Falcon are one and the same.

But our newbie Blackbirds...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-10-21 05:35:54 UTC
I used to be anti falcon but having trained one up and tested it theres a good chance you'll get popped since you have hardly any HP and have had good jamming runs where I perm jammed but also really bad ones where multiple jams failed.

I don't like random mechanic though. Prefer it was something like reduces ability to lock targets to zero per jammer. One jammer would reduce to zero. If target had sebo it can lock one target. If another jammer is used target has zero. And so on.

Thats more consistent with other ECM.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#16 - 2013-10-21 05:38:16 UTC
MY what a terrible thread.
There are counters available, no imbalance here, move along.

A quick thanks to all who replied to this malarkey.

Truly OP Falcon would be able to jam multiple targets then destroy them. But no, that would be Wrong.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-10-21 05:46:51 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Wasn't Falcon already nerfed? I mean wasn't ECM already nerfed?

ECM and Falcon are one and the same.

But our newbie Blackbirds...


If ECM cruisers were bewbies:

Blackbird = A-cup
Falcon = epic perma-perky triple-F's with small nipples and naturally-occuring cleavage

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#18 - 2013-10-21 05:53:30 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Wasn't Falcon already nerfed? I mean wasn't ECM already nerfed?

ECM and Falcon are one and the same.

But our newbie Blackbirds...

If ECM cruisers were bewbies:

Blackbird = A-cup
Falcon = epic perma-perky triple-F's with small nipples and naturally-occuring cleavage

I don't really get where you're going with it, but anyway we mostly removed the blackbird from our low-sp fleets in favor of the famous celestis.

test of course continued using blackbirds

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-10-21 06:02:29 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Wasn't Falcon already nerfed? I mean wasn't ECM already nerfed?

ECM and Falcon are one and the same.

But our newbie Blackbirds...

If ECM cruisers were bewbies:

Blackbird = A-cup
Falcon = epic perma-perky triple-F's with small nipples and naturally-occuring cleavage

I don't really get where you're going with it, but anyway we mostly removed the blackbird from our low-sp fleets in favor of the famous celestis.

test of course continued using blackbirds


I'm going almost nowhere with that. I'm drunk and stoned, as usual. N/M me... I'm barely on Earth, right now.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-10-21 06:44:13 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
MY what a terrible thread.
There are counters available, no imbalance here, move along.

A quick thanks to all who replied to this malarkey.

Truly OP Falcon would be able to jam multiple targets then destroy them. But no, that would be Wrong.



It can. Has a good chance of dying though.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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