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Why do so many see EvE as "shoot at other people PvP" game?

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E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#121 - 2013-10-21 20:18:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
This game has a high learning curve not a high skill requirement as related to twitch.
…but as luck would have it, twitch is just one of many skills. As the steep and high learning curve shows, EVE requires a huge variety and a large amount of skill in many of the other areas.

So the OP's claim that Quake requires higher skill because it has more buttons (a dozen compared to EVE's hundred or so) is pretty nonsensical.

And as to his main question, I still take it that the OP hasn't seen any trailers or PR material for this game.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Plain old grass? Yes.

The stringent regulatory requirements for all this "organic whole grain no hormones blessed by a hippy pagan princess vegan-acceptable" foods? Still Ludicrously more less than cattle. Why else do you think I can buy 3 pounds of beef for the same price as I can put together one of those vegan meals?

Because of subsidies, scale, and short-cuts in the handling process. Non-meats are still a lot less resource-intensive to produce and distribute.

As luck would have it once again you would be wrong. This game is no where close to a twich based skill game. This game is won or loss 90% of the time before you even undock.
Enduros
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#122 - 2013-10-21 20:29:53 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

As luck would have it once again you would be wrong. This game is no where close to a twich based skill game. This game is won or loss 90% of the time before you even undock.

He's just pissed that any lol or dota player could do EvE combat part (F1, position: range, speed, trajectory, broadcast), but doesn't want to admit it. Because those games have terrain and obsticles to deal with aswell, closest thing in eve is a bubble. You also need to react in a split second. Good thing this is maybe 5% of EvE. I think they mistake the planning for the act of combat or something.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2013-10-21 20:36:09 UTC
Well you can see it like that OP. Or you can see it like building a empire. The game is indeed based on PVP and thats the nr 1 reason you play eve online. If not the best way to say it there are better pve/pvc games out there. Sure you can pve/pvc but thats not what eve is made for. Its more a side job of eve online. However because eve have so many pve/pvc content that people think its like wow or other mmorpg but its not...... a common mistake in eve online.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#124 - 2013-10-21 20:43:19 UTC
I believe this attitude of EVE being only about PVP originates from the early days of this game when it was designed without h-sec. It was setup from the start to be a competitive game where players could immerge themselves in a spaceship enviroment. Fortunately for me without all the star-trek talk.

Remember tho that mining and transporting were there right off the bat too.

But I don't understand why you even care what others believe EVE is about. I'm convinced you're the one deciding that.
Enduros
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2013-10-21 20:46:50 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Well you can see it like that OP. Or you can see it like building a empire. The game is indeed based on PVP and thats the nr 1 reason you play eve online. If not the best way to say it there are better pve/pvc games out there. Sure you can pve/pvc but thats not what eve is made for. Its more a side job of eve online. However because eve have so many pve/pvc content that people think its like wow or other mmorpg but its not...... a common mistake in eve online.


You must not have read my post or read it wrong. It's exactly my point that there is so much more to eve PvP then the F1 blowing up stuff and getting killmails part. And yet people put exactly this on some pedestal, it doesn't deserve it.

For example the big fights with thousands of people. There is nothing impressive about a thousand monkeys pressing F1 while you have a guy doing the thinking for them and even the flying for them. However the sheer amount of organizational and logistical effort to get those people in a fleet is awe inspiring? All the in-game equipment and teamwork to pull something like that off... it's insane. And the F1 monkeys take the credit. This isn't right.
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2013-10-21 20:50:53 UTC
Well EvE is a PvP game..

And not just in a sense of Shooting directly at each other PvP... Pretty much everything you do in this game is competing against another player/s

So a market toon.. he is competing against the other market toons to make the best profits.. Miners are compeing against other miners in the area to get the most profitable rocks.. ect..ect..

Just because it doesnt always have explosions doesnt mean it isnt PvP
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#127 - 2013-10-21 20:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Enduros wrote:
You mean like the one about the inty flying 200km though gunfire to get a warp-in or the one where russians put 2 avatars in the system with nobody noticing? Also I think you missed the one where some carebare alliance put a bounty on vic. Or the one about stealing alliance assets? The last one is about exploration only and the rest of them are pretty much beauty shots of ships with DnB type of stuff in the background. Which ones am I suppose to watch again?
Any of them, since they're all about PvP.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
As luck would have it once again you would be wrong.
Nope. I just don't buy the simpleton definition of “twitch” as the only skill. People only try to trot that random, arbitrary, and simplistic demarcation out as a defence whenever they get beaten silly: “I define this to be the only skill in existence, so therefore any method of beating me that does not include it must be skilless”.

Quote:
This game is won or loss 90% of the time before you even undock.
…and with twitch being only 10% of what determines what happens when you undock, that means that EVE has roughly 100× higher skill requirements than some silly little twitch game.

Enduros wrote:
He's just pissed that any lol or dota player could do EvE combat part (F1, position: range, speed, trajectory, broadcast)
Setting aside for a moment that that's not the combat part of EVE, no. I'm just pointing out that twitch is an utterly minute blip on the overall skill radar. Any player with some minimal twitch skill can come into EVE and cover that part, but they'll still be murdered since they lack the skills needed for this particular game. After all, it covers a far larger slice of skill pie than what they're used to.

But I understand why you're pissed now: because you are as unfamiliar with those other parts as they are, and you're trying to raise your comparative self-esteem by dismissing those parts for some trumped-up reason that essentially boils down to their being better at it than you are, so it must be a scrub tactic.

Quote:
However the sheer amount of organizational and logistical effort to get those people in a fleet is awe inspiring? All the in-game equipment and teamwork to pull something like that off... it's insane. And the F1 monkeys take the credit. This isn't right.
Quite correct: what you said is not right. The only ones giving credit that way are the ones who think that EVE requires no skill and the ones who think that pushing F1 is all there is to EVE combat.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#128 - 2013-10-21 21:31:04 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
pagan princess.


Yes?


I prefer the term High Priestess Designate, Heir to The Vestibule of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh

But whatever ignorant title floats yer boat

I prefer being The Heir to The Throne of The Kingdom of Fools.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#129 - 2013-10-21 21:34:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

I prefer being The Heir to The Throne of The Kingdom of Fools.



Nightranger, man


Night




Ranger

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#130 - 2013-10-21 21:35:09 UTC
Enduros wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
Well you can see it like that OP. Or you can see it like building a empire. The game is indeed based on PVP and thats the nr 1 reason you play eve online. If not the best way to say it there are better pve/pvc games out there. Sure you can pve/pvc but thats not what eve is made for. Its more a side job of eve online. However because eve have so many pve/pvc content that people think its like wow or other mmorpg but its not...... a common mistake in eve online.


You must not have read my post or read it wrong. It's exactly my point that there is so much more to eve PvP then the F1 blowing up stuff and getting killmails part. And yet people put exactly this on some pedestal, it doesn't deserve it.

For example the big fights with thousands of people. There is nothing impressive about a thousand monkeys pressing F1 while you have a guy doing the thinking for them and even the flying for them. However the sheer amount of organizational and logistical effort to get those people in a fleet is awe inspiring? All the in-game equipment and teamwork to pull something like that off... it's insane. And the F1 monkeys take the credit. This isn't right.

Solo Drakban, the hero we truly need.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Atomic Virulent
Embargo.
#131 - 2013-10-21 21:46:52 UTC
You must first understand that there are 2 schools of thought here.

1) Those who understand that the game is ultimately about fighting for space, typically with guns, missiles, drones or under-animated doomsday weapons.

2) Those who have no self-worth, no human value, no sense of glory or moral compass... Those who prey on others who have neither the desire or ABILITY to fight back... Those who lack skill in quite literally every way. Those who "just want to watch the world burn".

Can you guess which group champions the idiotic idea of 'non-consensual pvp'?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#132 - 2013-10-21 21:48:40 UTC
Atomic Virulent wrote:
You must first understand that there are 2 schools of thought here.

1) Those who understand that the game is ultimately about fighting for space, typically with guns, missiles, drones or under-animated doomsday weapons.

2) Those who have no self-worth, no human value, no sense of glory or moral compass... Those who prey on others who have neither the desire or ABILITY to fight back... Those who lack skill in quite literally every way. Those who "just want to watch the world burn".

Can you guess which group champions the idiotic idea of 'non-consensual pvp'?

The structure shooters who only want to take sov and will shoot structures for it?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#133 - 2013-10-21 21:51:54 UTC
Fact: Pressing F1 makes you awesome.
Screw everyone that says otherwise, or says the same thing, but in a sarcastic way.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Enduros
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2013-10-21 21:53:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Enduros wrote:
He's just pissed that any lol or dota player could do EvE combat part (F1, position: range, speed, trajectory, broadcast)
Setting aside for a moment that that's not the combat part of EVE, no. I'm just pointing out that twitch is an utterly minute blip on the overall skill radar. Any player with some minimal twitch skill can come into EVE and cover that part, but they'll still be murdered since they lack the skills needed for this particular game. After all, it covers a far larger slice of skill pie than what they're used to.

But I understand why you're pissed now: because you are as unfamiliar with those other parts as they are, and you're trying to raise your comparative self-esteem by dismissing those parts for some trumped-up reason that essentially boils down to their being better at it than you are, so it must be a scrub tactic.


You are missing the point I'm trying to make. Most of EvE boils down to information processing. I'm saying the tactical side of EvE combat is not what it's made out to be. Everything leading up to it however is far more then any other game can offer.

As for those silly little twitch games... you have obviously never played any competitively and you have no idea what you are talking about. Also FPS is actually a bad example because most of them are just twitch and nothing else, that's why I brought up quake. But since you don't have the first clue to what quake is then I shall bring up starcraft or dota. I will assume you know what both of those are and my argument is that the tactical side of combat in those games is far more difficult then EvE.

Also how very BoB of you to start assuming I'm not familiar with EvE. If I was unfamiliar I couldn't be able to make these comparisons. It's you who is unfamiliar with what I'm comparing it to. Oh and since you brought this up my self-esteem is fine and you must be from the US because over here we don't worry about this nonsense anyway. As for someone being better at something, well you don't know how good I am and I don't know who you are comparing me to so now what? As for my scrub tactics... they aren't working, last I checked you can't win eve.

Instead of resulting to some personal slander you should maybe make a reasonable argument. Did something strike a nerve and perhaps it's your self-esteem thaTry and not burst a blood vessel, ok?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#135 - 2013-10-21 21:58:54 UTC
Learning to assist your drones to your FC is the best thing ever.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#136 - 2013-10-21 22:11:32 UTC
Enduros wrote:
You are missing the point I'm trying to make.
You're missing the points you're making: that you assign fairly abusive labels based on nothing but your personal scorn for their preferred play style. You are also building the most massive and ridiculous straw man this forum has seen in ages (and that's saying something).

Quote:
As for those silly little twitch games...
…they have no bearing on the topic at hand unless you want to incorrectly reduce everything down to just “twitch skill” and thus wilfully ignore all other skills — the ones that EVE makes use of. Yet you bring them up, even though you claim to understand how irrelevant they are, as if they proved anything except that some people — specifically the ones that trot twitch games out as an example of… well… anything, really, in EVE — are very clueless about the concept of skill.

Quote:
Also how very BoB of you to start assuming I'm not familiar with EvE.
…which, of course, I didn't do. But if that's what you immediately assume people think of you, then maybe I should do so.
Now, if you don't want me to deduce that you are not familiar with the skills involved in being successful in EVE based on what you say, then maybe you should try harder not to say things that demonstrate a staggering ignorance about the skills involved in being successful in EVE.

Quote:
Oh and since you brought this up my self-esteem is fine and you must be from the US because
…you have nothing but incorrect assumptions to go on, which explains pretty much all you've said in this thread: the assumptions about skill, the assumptions about “credit”, the assumptions about favoured statuses, and the assumption that people can't make the connection between production and destruction.

Quote:
Instead of resulting to some personal slander you should maybe make a reasonable argument.
Maybe you should address the ones I made rather than resort to abuse of people who don't share your narrow-minded viewpoint and who actually see the bigger picture of this game? You asked a question, I answered it, and you immediately got very defensive and presumptive in your accusations when you couldn't come up with a good answer.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#137 - 2013-10-21 22:17:05 UTC
General Discussion, more like skillless scrub discussion eh

so much for forums pvp

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#138 - 2013-10-21 22:28:38 UTC
Enduros wrote:
Instead of resulting to some personal slander you should maybe make a reasonable argument.


Tippia is incapable of such a thing.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Enduros
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#139 - 2013-10-21 22:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Enduros
Tippia wrote:
Enduros wrote:
You are missing the point I'm trying to make.
You're missing the points you're making: that you assign fairly abusive labels based on nothing but your personal scorn for their preferred play style. You are also building the most massive and ridiculous straw man this forum has seen in ages (and that's saying something).

Thanks

Tippia wrote:
Enduros wrote:
As for those silly little twitch games...
…they have no bearing on the topic at hand unless you want to incorrectly reduce everything down to just “twitch skill” and thus wilfully ignore all other skills — the ones that EVE makes use of. Yet you bring them up, even though you claim to understand how irrelevant they are, as if they proved anything except that some people — specifically the ones that trot twitch games out as an example of… well… anything, really, in EVE — are very clueless about the concept of skill.

You clearly just label everything as a twitch game and don't understand the actual skill involved in playing starcraft or dota for example. To get some clue try this in eve:
Close your overview. Only use the system scanner for this.
Close the modules icons. Keep track of the timers and charges and what is turned on or off in your head.
Now you are playing at the proper concentration level.

Quote:
Maybe you should address the ones I made rather than resort to abuse of people who don't share your narrow-minded viewpoint and who actually see the bigger picture of this game?

I see the big picture. I'm complaining about people who elevate the narrow F1 pressing to something that it's not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#140 - 2013-10-21 22:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Enduros wrote:
Instead of resulting to some personal slander you should maybe make a reasonable argument.

Tippia is incapable of such a thing.

You seem to be confusing me with the OP… or with yourself.

Enduros wrote:
You clearly just label everything as a twitch game and don't understand the actual skill involved in playing starcraft or dota for example.
Clearly? Based on what? And why should I get some clue about something even you agree is not relevant to EVE?

Quote:
I see the big picture. I'm complaining about people who elevate the narrow F1 pressing to something that it's not.
…which no-one really does, other than you. That's why I get the distinct feeling that you're not seeing the bigger picture.