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Alteration of Scripture.
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Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#61 - 2013-10-24 17:41:44 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Slaver Filth wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:


On the whole, though, I think I've a measure of proof you might believe: the acts of God. Since the Moral Reforms, we expanded significantly as a society and profited immeasurably from our works. Much of that is due to the wise actions of the Privy and Theology Councils. The only punishments we received can certainly be blamed more on our treatment of our indentured population rather than our style of governance. We've had Holders mistreating slaves since well before the Moral Reforms and our defeat at the hands of the Jove and subsequent rebellion of the Matari speak much more to our citizen Holders.

Since then, the governments of Jamyl and Heideran have been telling successes. Our Empire is prospering. If we had been so resolutely diverting the will of God, surely He would have struck us down before addressing our labor issues. The fact is that the Moral Reforms, which I don't think anyone can deny had some political undercurrent (as does everything else in a quasi-theocratic society), has been rewarded by God and has done immeasurable good for the Empire. I can't see a better endorsement for the Moral Reforms than that.
Would you consider the Matari Slave Rebellion and the Jove War defeat examples of God’s approval of the Theology Council? Unless my knowledge is lacking prior to 23216 AD the Holy Amarr Empire had racked up an impressive record of conquests prior to the damaging quintet of corrupt administrative policies that are the true legacy of Heideran V.

Since the abolishment of the Council Of Apostles, the creation of the Privy Council, the creation of the Theology Council, the creation of the five heir families exclusive claim to the Imperial Throne, and the so called “Moral Reforms” that empowered it all the Amarr Empire has lost dominion over large swaths of space and people they had controlled for many millennia.

Do you really blame this on the wickedness of God's chosen people? Can you find no fault in how the empire has been administered under this historical anomaly of royal families?

Using your template: the acts of God, the exact opposite conclusion to the one you reached seems more plausible. Loss of stature, loss of territory, loss of slave populations, and the need to ally with the Godless Caldari does not look like the record of an ascendant empire. Of course this is my humble opinion. If you have facts to help me achieve better clarity I would be receptive to them.



I am saying that the slave revolts and our defeat at the hands of the Jove are the only down points and one can't say that they are directly or indirectly attacking the roles of the Theology or Privy Councils. The Privy and Theology Councils are still around and suffered very little. What was directly affected were slaveholding families, especially those who had vast swathes of Matari slaves that had been slaves for generations upon generations but were not learning Scripture. Not only were we affected directly there, but God used the instruments of their own corruption against them.

Were he displeased with the Theology Council, I'm fairly sure there would have been a genetic illness that would have broken out among the upper clergy, or there would have been a prison revolt. The Privy Council would have been struck down. We would have had a revolt by the middle classes against the Imperial seat. You could say God has been actively shaping us, as a people, through gains and punishments. None of those seem particularly aimed at our government as much as our social behavior. In fact, we are still up on land since the Moral Reforms. The Moral Reforms were instituted between 21875 and 21950, while the Matari conquest began on 22480. To that logic, we're still much larger than we were during the Moral Reforms. If God were displeased with the Moral Reforms, one would think he would have reduced our power beyond that point.

On the contrary, the Empress is still unquestionable, the Privy Council still as powerful as ever, and the Amarr Empire is going strong. It fairly obviously isn't our government which the acts of God seem most concerned with. The only act of God as it pertains to our government lately was the Empress's unlikely triumph over the Elder Fleet, which culminated in her coronation.

You make no mention of the Amarr civil war that raged for more than a century that was a direct result of the political machinations of Heideran V and his cabal of co-conspirators. Do you consider it a minor event not worthy of comment?

I find it hard to accept what you propose on the basis that it makes the vast majority of the Amarr Empire guilty of being poor examples of the Amarr faith, and the five heir families as perfection in their administration. The Amarr are God's chosen people, not just five families.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#62 - 2013-10-25 22:28:23 UTC
Slaver Filth wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Slaver Filth wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:


On the whole, though, I think I've a measure of proof you might believe: the acts of God. Since the Moral Reforms, we expanded significantly as a society and profited immeasurably from our works. Much of that is due to the wise actions of the Privy and Theology Councils. The only punishments we received can certainly be blamed more on our treatment of our indentured population rather than our style of governance. We've had Holders mistreating slaves since well before the Moral Reforms and our defeat at the hands of the Jove and subsequent rebellion of the Matari speak much more to our citizen Holders.

Since then, the governments of Jamyl and Heideran have been telling successes. Our Empire is prospering. If we had been so resolutely diverting the will of God, surely He would have struck us down before addressing our labor issues. The fact is that the Moral Reforms, which I don't think anyone can deny had some political undercurrent (as does everything else in a quasi-theocratic society), has been rewarded by God and has done immeasurable good for the Empire. I can't see a better endorsement for the Moral Reforms than that.
Would you consider the Matari Slave Rebellion and the Jove War defeat examples of God’s approval of the Theology Council? Unless my knowledge is lacking prior to 23216 AD the Holy Amarr Empire had racked up an impressive record of conquests prior to the damaging quintet of corrupt administrative policies that are the true legacy of Heideran V.

Since the abolishment of the Council Of Apostles, the creation of the Privy Council, the creation of the Theology Council, the creation of the five heir families exclusive claim to the Imperial Throne, and the so called “Moral Reforms” that empowered it all the Amarr Empire has lost dominion over large swaths of space and people they had controlled for many millennia.

Do you really blame this on the wickedness of God's chosen people? Can you find no fault in how the empire has been administered under this historical anomaly of royal families?

Using your template: the acts of God, the exact opposite conclusion to the one you reached seems more plausible. Loss of stature, loss of territory, loss of slave populations, and the need to ally with the Godless Caldari does not look like the record of an ascendant empire. Of course this is my humble opinion. If you have facts to help me achieve better clarity I would be receptive to them.



I am saying that the slave revolts and our defeat at the hands of the Jove are the only down points and one can't say that they are directly or indirectly attacking the roles of the Theology or Privy Councils. The Privy and Theology Councils are still around and suffered very little. What was directly affected were slaveholding families, especially those who had vast swathes of Matari slaves that had been slaves for generations upon generations but were not learning Scripture. Not only were we affected directly there, but God used the instruments of their own corruption against them.

Were he displeased with the Theology Council, I'm fairly sure there would have been a genetic illness that would have broken out among the upper clergy, or there would have been a prison revolt. The Privy Council would have been struck down. We would have had a revolt by the middle classes against the Imperial seat. You could say God has been actively shaping us, as a people, through gains and punishments. None of those seem particularly aimed at our government as much as our social behavior. In fact, we are still up on land since the Moral Reforms. The Moral Reforms were instituted between 21875 and 21950, while the Matari conquest began on 22480. To that logic, we're still much larger than we were during the Moral Reforms. If God were displeased with the Moral Reforms, one would think he would have reduced our power beyond that point.

On the contrary, the Empress is still unquestionable, the Privy Council still as powerful as ever, and the Amarr Empire is going strong. It fairly obviously isn't our government which the acts of God seem most concerned with. The only act of God as it pertains to our government lately was the Empress's unlikely triumph over the Elder Fleet, which culminated in her coronation.

You make no mention of the Amarr civil war that raged for more than a century that was a direct result of the political machinations of Heideran V and his cabal of co-conspirators. Do you consider it a minor event not worthy of comment?

I find it hard to accept what you propose on the basis that it makes the vast majority of the Amarr Empire guilty of being poor examples of the Amarr faith, and the five heir families as perfection in their administration. The Amarr are God's chosen people, not just five families.


To be honest, I'm not sure what you are talking about. The Moral Reforms was a process that took some time, but the Apostles' supporters were very quickly brought to heel or exiled. It may not have been the prettiest chapter in our history, but I certainly wouldn't call it a civil war that raged for over a century.

In addition, regardless of how long it took, the Emperor, Privy, and Theology Councils very clearly and obviously won.

I haven't, and wouldn't, however, call the five heir families perfect or we imperfect. They are not in their place on the basis of their resolute faith and understanding of Scripture; that is why they ordain clergy to handle that work. There are five heirs because, before that, there would be an entire Empire of people who might claim the throne. By limiting the people who might end up sitting on it, we avoid the Gallente problem of everyone plotting and scheming to take over the government every few years. And fights for the throne in our Empire are far less forgiving than elections.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26