Intergalactic Summit

It may be that your comparison is probably clouding your judgement. As an aside, ancient Amarrian (in which quite a few of our Scriptures are written) is incredibly different from current Amarrian, which in and of itself is very different from languages around the cluster. The translator does its best, of course, but ancient Amarrian is nigh untranslatable into a modern language. It simply didn't have many words, and it often doesn't have words for current concepts and issues.

For instance, the idea of "pure thought" in old Amarrian Scriptures is a bad thing. It is a correct, direct translation when it is used, however it is entirely misleading. The ancient Amarrians had one word that meant "the which has been reduced to one," and this is often translated as "pure" rather than its longer translation to keep the cadence correct. However, ancient Amarrians understood "purity" to be the same as "individual," so the idea of pure thought not being one free of sin, but free of external input from the rest of the Empire, was commonplace. It was not a good thing to be pure in thought.

Nowadays, purity has a different connotation, especially in other languages and cultures, meaning to be free of anything that is not part of the whole. So pure thought now in other languages (thus it is becoming common in the new Amarrian) now means thought unblemished by sins such as greed or antisocial behavior. This confuses many new readers who read some of the most important and complete early works of Scripture who wonder why "purity" is so frowned upon.

That is all a matter of translation. Ancient Amarrian is very, very heavily reliant on context, which we sometimes have not recovered from the past and which certain lines are quoted bereft of. Unfortunately, the Council of Apostles relied heavily on quoting certain Scriptures to enforce edicts rather than making sure every single member of our society, including slaves, received a Scriptural education.

When the Council of Apostles was deposed, re-translation was necessary since nobody outside of that body had done it in thousands of years. The language had moved on, but the Apostles were still not translating the books from their older languages very often (after all, most of we ecclesiastical types can read ancient Amarrian to some degree, even a preacher like me). Translating the books led to the dissemination of our faith on a wider scale, as everyone, including slaves, needed to be able to read the Scriptures and understand them. This led, somewhat indirectly, to the blurring of the lines between the theological and civic aspects of our society.

Unlike your Caldari example, who was re-translating them specifically to inflame his power base, it is the duty of every single Amarrian to have a hand in Scriptural studies on some level. Whether this is simply re-reading basic texts regularly all the way to those brave archaeologists searching the cosmos for the earliest parts of our history, we all work on that behalf and can petition the Theology Council to review our work. It is then the job of the Theology Council, on one level, to see whether this new aspect of the Scriptures or new pieces of archaeological evidence is to be added to the canon.

That is why we Amarrians all do spend at least a little time reading Scripture. While most see this as something of a chore of prayer, it's really very important that we look at and examine all aspects of God's Word to make sure we're following them correctly. I've always encouraged people to go beyond just the common books of prayer and to really be part of our community, studying more obscure texts and becoming an expert, even if it seems to be over something relatively mundane. There are millions of Scriptural works in our possession, so God relies on each and every one of us to be at work making sure we're understanding everything correctly.

You really can't understand any single quote in Scripture without understanding the story it came from, which you only ever understand by reading the entire book, which can only really ever be understood by reading the books that it references and that reference it. It truly is a length labor God has tasked us with, so we should never be afraid to take our findings to our peers and ask if perhaps things are better translated or interpreted another way. God has not finished educating us, so we know we haven't learned everything yet.

Sometimes, it's all a matter of one word we didn't completely translate right.

Sid, you do it wrong.
For roasting Vea must be done
Solely with poems.

Remember the time
She tried to browbeat CONCORD
But she got ruined?

Our work, glorious.
Great limmericks and haikus,
Penned by noble hands.

Thus let us mock her
Not with crude prose and memes
But with fluid verse.

I wouldn't expect a heathen like you to understand. But Father Barracca is addressing the questions raised (extracted from another thread so the issue could be focused), and you would do well to consider his carefully reasoned thoughts and perhaps contact him for further edification and enlightenment as to the interpretation of the Holy Scriptures.

Content aside, this is a lot of very long posts and it appears to be more of a 2 person discussion than any scholarly debate. I'm sure myself and others would appreciate less "block-y" postings.

To be fair, N'maro, I think that's because there have only been two people thus far who read and commented on the subject matter rather than the length of the text. Theological discussions such as these tend towards lengthy posts as they tend towards the philosophical and descriptive. If the length of posts is difficult to digest, there are likely other conversations happening on the IGS whose subject matter encourages brevity rather than analysis. So there are options if this particular thread doesn't suit your tastes.

I would ask that if it isn't your cup of tea, you respectfully leave us to the discussion. Alizabeth does have questions about the faith and I am all too happy to answer her as completely as I possibly can.

With respect, I read long essays every day, matter of fact it's a large part of my job, from which I have learned that if you took longer than necessary to say it, then it was not for the benefit of the listener but the speaker.

A long sentence short, Mr Baracca, no-one ever took up arms for the sake of minutiae.

I hold to my opinion that a conversation of minutiae between two persons is best suited to private correspondence, but for sake of manners, I will leave you with that opinion and not comment further.

Apologies for taking so long to get back to you.

I get the translation issue. I actually knew what the line about pure thought means, as the first book Sister Raifah was Emmanuel Kaantin's Critique of Pure Though. I get it though. There is the same problem with translating texts from the Raata period on Caldari Prime. Actually, there's problems translating words from Napanii to Caldari and both of those are used with some regularity! Language is also fluid. New words are being created as civilization and technology progress. Imagine, for example, trying to translate 'star gate' into ancient Amarrish. I just question that the final arbitrary body of deciding what is correct is also a institution with quite a bit of power in the Empire. As I understand it, the Theology Council played empress-maker when they declared Jamyl Sarum empress, despite her being a clone.

And you may be right about my past clouding my perceptions, but there is a saying in GSF: Power corrupts; absolute power is actually pretty cool, but absolutely corrupting. So, with the Theology Council being a major player in the Empire's power structure, I question how true they can remain to their task. Now, I understand that the Empress has some sort of divine spark. It is my belief, a lay person's only, that the divine spark doesn't so much make her infallible as prevent the corruption from power.

If you want an example you can relate to, Chancellor Khanid would be a good one. He was one step away from the throne, but power had already corrupted him. When he lost, he split. Since then, Chancellor Khanid has only gotten worse. Slavery in the Kingdom doesn't event attempt a pretense at nobility, whereas the Amarr at least try, for the most part, to use slavery as a tool to convert. Look at the Gallente pop star he keeps as a pet. And a pet is what she is, not a slave. The rest of the Kingdom follows his example, quite a common thing, actually. The 'leader principle' is pretty standard amongst humanity. If the authority figure is doing some act, or orders it, no matter how repulsive said act is, a majority of the followers will do the act.

I guess I would be a bit more comfortable with the idea if the Theology Council was an independent body with no political power at all.

I somewhat agree with you. As strange as it is for someone in my position, I'm relatively uncomfortable with political power, yet I have a Holder I am loyal to just as anyone else, so the Baracca family does have political clout of some degree. I do totally understand what you mean, though, as the Theology Council (and really anyone else in power) has every personal reason to use their position for gain. Certainly, though I would say the Moral Reforms were a positive act in our history and the Theology Council has done quite a bit of good for the faith since its inception, I will not argue that politics were involved. When our theology is tied so closely to our government, that is bound to happen.

I suppose I see things in a more evolutionary view. The Heir families have, despite their somewhat political appointments, have made sure that they fight just enough to ensure we have had worthwhile leadership but not so much that the Empire has suffered irrecoverably. Certainly, the Khanid rebellion was one such time when our politics led to a political family splitting from the fold, but I think our leadership handled the subsequent fallout well and the Khanid have returned to the Empire. All in all, it's worked out well enough for us. One can hardly blame our more recent spate of problems on the political system as much as on our Empire collectively valuing economics over theology.

So even as a cleric, I would not be the one who would tell you that every empire has an internal problem, and ours is when we sacrifice our greatest asset, our faith, for temporal power. It isn't just the Khanid Kingdom either where you see people forgetting their religious duties and the good lessons of the faith. Living righteously isn't necessarily limited to us either. Your example does have merit, as our failures as an empire to carry on as good stewards of the faith are likely the cause of our most recent issues. God taught us a valuable lesson about failing to take our responsibilities seriously, using our own indulgences as His instruments.

All we can do about it is to preach the good words of moderation, charity, and humility. Excess and laziness are somewhat expected from people of high position elsewhere. Not in our Empire. We need to hold ourselves to higher standards.