EVE General Discussion

Old Eve joke: "Every time someone leaves Eve to play Wow the average IQ of both games go up."

ccp is deeply involved in player efforts to run lotteries

A good eve player won't make a good WOW player anymore then a good WOW player will make a good EVE player.

I almost forgot about that.... LET IT BURN!! GIVE ME ORCS AND ELVES!!

To some extent both games are like this: as your skill as a player improves, your performance ingame improves. In both games the skills to succeed in PvP involve tactical and strategic elements. In both games the PvE side comes down to rote memorisation of scripts for beating certain encounters. The main difference is that the strategic elements of WoW don't include "bring 2000 of your closest friends" :)

Almost every post is biased for EvE. Which isn't surprising at all, it is the EvE forums after all.
I'm pretty noob in EvE, but I've played WoW for a long time and at the highest end game level. And PvE and PvP is really fun and not "easy".

I think too many veteran EvE players are comparing their years in EvE to the first few steps in WoW. Leveling to 20, 41, or 60 or w/e shouldn't count, that's pretty much the equivalent of a WoW veteran like myself comparing the entirety of the WoW end game to completing the EvE tutorial buying my first frigate and doing a couple L1 missions.

From what I experienced so far from EvE, correct me if I'm wrong. PvP wise, there's not much "skill" involved, it's either about whoever has more pilots in their fleet, or who gets the jump on who, or what type of ship you encounter, I watched the Alliance tournament as well on stream, and although I'm a complete noob and have no idea what was going on, almost every match felt very one sided, once a couple ships start dying on one side, it snowballs really fast. At the highest tier of PvP in WoW. In 3v3 arena. Everyone has the same gear, same spells, only thing different is what type of class comp you are running, and it takes a lot of skill and knowledge of every spell for every class in the game.

Can't talk in terms of EvE PvE, but the hardest tier in WoW PvE is hard mode 10m or 25m raids, which is incredibly hard. And it feels like real character progression because you are going in there weekly with the same 10 or 25 people and killing the next boss or getting closer to killing him and wiping (failing) dozens of times to get a single mechanic of the fight right.

What is appealing in EvE to me, is that it's a sandbox. I am free to do what I want, but at the same time, for noobs like me there isn't much to do, and if my curious takes the better of me, it can be pretty unforgiving. It's definitely incredible how this game progressed as a player driven economy, but it feels like it's almost impossible for a new player to get into the game. There are two types of gamers, Casual and Hardcore. And for both types getting into EvE is really hard. For Casuals there is just way too much info to take in with no one to help them at first. For Hardcore gamers, you always feel behind everyone else because of the time based progression. Another point about EvE is that the UI feels a bit outdated. Just the windows of every interface, like just clicking it and closing it, it feels like there's a delay. It doesn't feel polished and up to date to a 2013 game. And I think it's missing some very basic features like locking the windows in place, being able to enable no sound in background, so I don't have to keep going into the options menu every time I want to alt tab and watch a video. Inverting mousewheel zoom sounds like one that a lot of noobs would appreciate, although it's not a big deal at all. I think EvE needs to take these small steps to being a bit more noob friendly.

I play EvE because I'm a huge sci fi fan, and I really like the concept of a sandbox universe, I haven't been there, but I can tell the end game of EvE (if that's what you want to call it) is ridiculously in depth and fun. But at the same time, WoW is only 1 year younger and it feels a lot more polished and smoother than EvE, they found a way to cater to noobs while bringing out incredibly challenging content for hardcore players. However i can tell that if you are willing to put in the time and knowledge, EvE will ultimately be the more rewarding in the long run... but that's if you can last.

Both games complement each other. Kinda like a wife and a mistress.

Warcraft III > WoW

(Joke)
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(ed - yeah, I can ASCII)

Terry Qon, I strongly disagree with you on several points.

First off, the current form of WoW's raiding and instances is utter easy mode. You even get told by the game what kind of tactics the boss you're fighting will use. Any person with half a brain can figure out what he needs to do when and how. After I quit wow, I would sometimes take over from a friend of mine who still played during raids, played a different class than me, in raids I had never before seen. I managed to do just fine on each and all of them. Was I as good as him? No, I had no proper knowledge of every little bit of details of his class ( mage ), only my general knowledge as a cloth dps caster(warlock was my own class when I played ).
This didn't stop me from performing properly and not get everyone or myself killed from jumping through the wrong hoops or zigging when I had to zag.

WoW PvP is of course a different beast, and I congratulate you on your gladiator title( yes, it really is a prestigious one, I agree ).
Here you are pitted against other players and player skill is all that really matters( as well as knowing how to exploit every little weakness you can, like the old stun lock rogue )
But even here, options are far more limited, as in the end there is only so many classes and viable combo's, and all arenas are set up in a way that limits the engagements. Eve's many many ships, modules, skills make for a far more diverse and complex gameplay as the 'arena' you're fighting in is also much larger and complicated even within a single solar system. ( Think of safe spots, tactical spots, engagement ranges, warpins through cloakies, celestials, stations, gates, not to mention (covert) cynos, fleet compositions and what have you )

Finally, you seem to be under the impression that you will never be as good as some player from 2003 or something in Eve. This is plainly wrong. While at lower skill points your options will be more limited, by specialising into specific things, you can easily be as good as ( in character abilities ) an ancient player, or better if he never bothered to skill up into something. The only difference is he has more options to choose from before he undocks ( think of it has him having unlocked more 'classes' than you, but he's not necessarily higher level or better geared than you )

I recommend you take another look at tournament matches if that is your thing, as there have been many matches that have swung back and forth several times during matches, these are of course the most interesting ones to watch. Also the snowballing effect is something you should consider to be only limited to Eve. WoW arenas have the same thing. Once one of your team members dies, you will be at a disadvantage, this holds true for any group combat. An enemy team pressing this advantage will be able to snowball the enemy into the ground. Turnarounds because of smart tactics or tricks is what make watching/playing