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When the initial release was made about syphons I thought that they had the potential for a huge amount of abuse. But I waited patiently to see what would be cooked up. In the mean time, I imagined groups of players using blops and blockade runners to drop covertly into a system. They would anchor dozens of syphons on a single POS (doable but not easy) to briefly disrupt and steal everything they could get their hands on. At least that would require a concerted effort by multiple players.

But with the current stats 1 syphon will pull 60% of a moon's single resource output per hour. (Raws are 1m3 per unit.) Total take is reduced by 20% wastage. 60-12 = 48 units of raw goo per hour up to 1200 units. This syphon will be full in exactly 25 hours. 2 of them will completely shut down any single resource harvesting. 8 will shut down all harvesting on even a 4 resource moon.

20m3 in volume. That's it? A Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I is 65m3. 8 would require only 160m3 in cargo space. An Anathema covert ops frigate has a 190m3 cargohold. A single covert ops frigate could literally shut down all harvesting at a tower, log out at a safe, and then come back tomorrow at the same time to light the covert cyno for a single blockade runner to come get the goo when the syphons are full. (Yes, it can be done.)

One person with 3 accounts can do this.

Abuseable doesn't even begin to describe how bad these numbers are. If this goes live on TQ, every R64-holding alliance in the game is going to take down their moon-mining towers and quit because every R64 they own will be constantly and permanently syphoned.

The goo will not flow.

Besides parking a POS gunner at every moon mining/reaction tower in the game (more alts for the alt throne) this situation can be avoided easily at this stage. Any of these below changes would make things better. But primarily, the volume of syphons and amount syphoned have to be adjusted.

• Make smalls syphon 6 units per hour, not 60. Or a certain small percentage of whatever is coming out, like 5%. 60 is pants-on-head ********.


• Smalls can only syphon from raw extraction.


• Mediums: raw and simple reactors.


• Larges: raw, simple, and complex.


• Make them require to be anchored to work.


• Only 1 can be anchored at a time at any moon.


• Make syphons much larger in volume.

So long as d-scan works, noting that siphons were dropped should be simple. There is still the issue that the security status for ratting might not encourage anyone to be in system. Perhaps that means the ratters should receive a nice payment for handling the siphons.

I don't understand why so many randoms seem to think that everyone in a null alliance secretly hates their own alliance... why the heck would I go about stealing the goo that pays for my ships? If anything, it's in my best interest to blap every single one of the damn things I see. Just another crap to grind through without any fun gameplay (read: shooting people).

Not only we need to grind through structures to capture space nobody is defending, now we will have to continuously grind through structures to keep profiting from our space that nobody is attacking.

I think this is really well thought out. It takes power out of the hands of alliance leadership, and allows small entities or their own line members! - to get their hands on the moon goo. This means that moon goo will never be as subject to restricted supply and market manipulation as was seen in the days of OTEC/NOTEC. This will be good for the market overall and contrary to some goon claims, will make the market more resilient.

I also see this as an opening up of moons to all players. Realistically you need to be in a group of a certain size to control a moon and engage in PVP. This means that for much of the player-base, moon goo means exactly nothing to them. After this change, even a solo player will be able to fly around hunting for siphons others have placed, or dropping their own. This definitely adds depth, and things to do to the game for all players which is A Good Thing.

There will be more activities to conduct while roaming through enemy territory - dropping siphons, or collecting from them (a little?). This might give more reasons to roam, and cause people to spend more time in systems which I suspect will mean there is a greater chance for battles to occur. Perhaps systems owners will even leave one siphon in each system to provide an ambushing point?

Now I think I understand why you're in a NPC corp.

yes my jita price check and cyno alt is in a npc corp...

do you have a valid point to make or just stating it as an observation.

Expressing my understanding of your point and position. Don't agree with it, but eh, CCP is determined to ignore us and implement this and then they will nerf it to oblivion once goons complete the cycle of deliberate abuse that has started now that they have warned CCP about it being OP.

ah lowsec... yes. ok you have a point there as i do not spend that much time in that space.

when did i say that all moon owners own r64? i was looking at it from your perspective being in PL. so i was using r64 and r32 as examples of money moons. i was looking at the ability for groups like you to have full time coverage.

i know we only setup moon mining to cover the cost of the pos and typically dont make much profit from it.

moreover small groups like the one my main is in usually set up thier poses in system they live in. So as long as you have a good timezone coverage they should be fine. if anything this will make smaller entities team up with other time zone peeps to have full coverage.

I have stated options in previous posts that would enable a reduced amount of checking. like increasing siphon cycle time to 3 hours. this would reduce to checking only 8 times a day. vrs the 24 that would be required in the op.

so that would mean only 8 cycles would be siphoned and not 24 which would still make poses profitable... but when you start putting on more then one it would have to potential to reduce the profit.

personally i think the idea of the siphon unit is a great idea... totally it needs some work and polishing before november 19th but its worth it...

you will notice i agree with the goons. though i am rather excited to see thier plan put into motion. its truely a great plan if they can pull it off.

correct me if i am wrong but i saw on twitter the other day a goon saying they just finished scanning 75k moons to figure out where all the new r64 are. if they can siphon half of them that would be a great achievement and they would deserve my respect for it.

edit: oops