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Major Warp Speed problems

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Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#281 - 2013-10-31 15:45:33 UTC
I believe you will find that the ability to catch subcap fleets using this mechanic will be a double-edged sword and I for one look forward to seeing your fleets die in a fire to heaps of bombs.

Meanwhile we were discussing fleets consisting of mainly capitals/supers where I believe that since catching supers will now be way easier than before even alliances or coalitions with a large super capital force will shy away from using them in small numbers UNLESS they have a large force available for backup already logged in / at the login screen.

Anything that limits the use of supers and/or cause more of them to die in a fire can only be a good thing. Right? Oh, I forgot, this stance is not popular in certain circles Big smile.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#282 - 2013-10-31 15:56:42 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
sorry to disapoint you but this thread is about the warp speed issue, specificaly the deceleration speed being too fast on some ships to the point they are actually able to take action while not even being on the overview.

yes, this include cap / supers, BUT this is also a problem for any single ship bigger than a frig.

but since noone fly nothingnelse than cap / supers and frigs, you are right, this is a problem for caps and supers only......
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#283 - 2013-10-31 15:57:41 UTC
*shrugs* you can waggle your epeen around as much as you want and talk about how you'll finally get a leg up on the bad guy.. it just means you're missing the point.

ultimately this will push people into smaller and smaller ships, increase risk-aversion and be to the detrriment of the game IMHO. I suppose we'll see what actually happens.
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#284 - 2013-10-31 16:57:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Forlorn Wongraven
Zilero wrote:
Meanwhile we were discussing fleets consisting of mainly capitals/supers where I believe that since catching supers will now be way easier than before even alliances or coalitions with a large super capital force will shy away from using them in small numbers UNLESS they have a large force available for backup already logged in / at the login screen.

This is standard behaviour for deploying supers since the nerf two years ago. Sure there is a hotdrop in low-sec here and there, but still either vs a helpless jf/freighter or other caps/pimped bs along with carriers as support to kill hics, but that is personal risk of individuals pilots and by no means encouraged by alliance leaders. Maybe xXxPizzaxXxdeliveryxXx should get some caps to understand what they are supposed to do. Oh and do you fly all your ships manually from Jita?

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2013-10-31 17:03:41 UTC
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:

This is standard behaviour for deploying supers since the nerf two years ago. Sure there is a hotdrop in low-sec here and there, but still either vs a helpless jf/freighter or other caps/pimped bs along with carriers as support to kill hics, but that is personal risk of individuals pilots and by no means encouraged by alliance leaders. Maybe xXxPizzaxXxdeliveryxXx should get some caps to understand what they are supposed to do. Oh and do you fly all your ships manually from Jita?


Totally explains the Revenant loss earlier this year.

Meh, let's agree to disagree at least Big smile
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#286 - 2013-10-31 17:03:58 UTC
The only drawback I have noticed from the lovely warp speeds now is that I need to upgrade my laptop as it chokes trying to load the grid when landing with a 12.5AU/s Viator. Big smile

How to win EVE
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#287 - 2013-10-31 17:13:41 UTC
Zilero wrote:
Totally explains the Revenant loss earlier this year.

Go read the story again on your favourite eve news webpage, you didn't get what happened. Same as why this mechanic is broken with the server being too slow, you don't get it.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#288 - 2013-10-31 17:22:00 UTC
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:

Go read the story again on your favourite eve news webpage, you didn't get what happened. Same as why this mechanic is broken with the server being too slow, you don't get it.


Nah, I get it. I accept that your perception is different due to... the circumstances.

Anyway, dead horse beaten and stuff.
Lord Xander
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#289 - 2013-10-31 18:07:07 UTC
Kossaw wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Because of the current server tick, EVE is one of the most kind MMO's to poor internet connections; I know someone who could play via satellite, 2000ms ping, (2 seconds!) reasonably well once any fight was under way, though he would simply find himself in a station, right after jumping into some insta-lock camps. FPS games like Battlefield were impossible.

I don't believe we're getting any change to server tick any time soon. More than just increased server load, it would also knock out some subscribers.

Looking at deceleration (only) is still worth considering, but in post #190, CCP Fozzie replied directly to a question that mentioned deceleration, and was not persuaded to change anything then.


Folks proposing increasing the server tick rate are pretty much wrong for this reason. Increasing the server tick rate is already possible - you've seen it demonstrated in the alliance tournament.

However, the real issues with ships insta-appearing on grid are more than likely related to the time delays in getting the server information from London to your client. These effects already exist - the game is slightly slower in the US, noticeably slower in Australia, and pretty bloody quick in the UK by comparison. ( Yes, I've played in all these locations) Now that ships decelerate faster these issues are much more apparent.

Yes, smaller ships warping faster is fun and ultimately its good for the game. But ships insta-appearing on grid is not. Small ships need to decelerate slower so the server has time to update the client.



true story, can´t say any more then this otherwise i start troling. (you know me xD)
but this is serious.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#290 - 2013-10-31 18:28:47 UTC
Honestly the only problem with the warp speed changes I've noticed so far is that when I warp around in an interceptor at 16 AU/s I often need to change my pants when planets and stations suddenly appear on my screen out of nowhere.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#291 - 2013-10-31 20:49:23 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Honestly the only problem with the warp speed changes I've noticed so far is that when I warp around in an interceptor at 16 AU/s I often need to change my pants when planets and stations suddenly appear on my screen out of nowhere.


Wait until the 53% increase you get from Implants to compliment that

At Vegas Fozzie was zipping around at 24 AU/sec
Montami
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#292 - 2013-11-01 15:25:42 UTC
Giullare wrote:
You pizza guy missing the whole part where is explained that even sniper muninn or other subcapitals fleet can be bubbled by " not yet in overview " dictor.

But this isn't a broken mechanics for sure.


You either:

a) Smartbomb the bubble off (if dictor @ 0)
b) Bomb the bubble off (if dictor @ range and now dead due to **** muninns)
c) defensive bubble your fleet to prevent warp-ins
Montami
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#293 - 2013-11-01 15:31:04 UTC
Chandaris wrote:


The scenario will be your 20 man rupture gang will get a 200,000k EHP hyperspace rigged, implanted loki and his 5 dictor buddies popping a bubble and a cyno on your 'lol we're so cool' arty rupture or whatever **** gang you decide to run before you even know they are there.

By the time you realize they are actually there (ie see them on your overview), your fleet has been bubbled, your most expensive ship is already pointed, and the stuff coming through the cyno is 2 seconds away from spawning on grid.

This will basically give the larger aggressive alliances who have the ability to coordinate these types of attacks a massive advantage over the little guy.


My most expensive rupture dies, RIP.
I am sure if you were the rupture FC you would simply hold your fleet still @ zero. Not use your god-given MWD, but just wait for the fleet load grid and shoot you instead of actually... you know overload @ burning mwd out of the bubbles while popping the dictors left & right while fleet is loading grid.

Come up with something better like. Oh, dear you decide to roam with your ahac gang and then you get bubbled and can't burn and you die. Well yes, there you go. You roam in ahacs you deserve to die vOv
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#294 - 2013-11-01 15:47:50 UTC
Dear Pizza guy: this isn't really about which ship types you like or hate, and which ones you think deserve to live or die.

this is about a broken warpin mechanic that gives certain classes an unreasonable advantage.

"I'm going to warp my ship in and point something before they even see me on grid/dscan" Is not something someone should ever be able to say. Even stealth ships have mechanics surrounding them that prevent them from doing exactly this. Even a cloaked hictor needs to decloak, then pop bubble and will be present on overview for at least one server tick.

Is your entire alliance as bad as you at missing the point?
Montami
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#295 - 2013-11-01 15:57:19 UTC
I understand your concerns about this, but I am simply arguing against those poor examples you've put up to defend your cause. If you don't want your examples argued about then don't present any.

This is a SUBJECTIVE opinion based on what YOU or I think are valid gameplay. There is no math in it to prove that you, yourself is right nor wrong. It is what is valid gameplay according to what you wish to achieve.
Clearly you think it's not only disruptive, but unfair, not just, game breaking and wrong. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong).

I think it's a great change as a bubble does not mean certain death, just 100 % tackle (except interdiction nullified).
Now what you think or I think does affect what CCP will think themselves about the changes. On their own they think it's fine gameplay and good changes (or else why implement it?), as players we can persuade them to think elsewise, hence is why I am arguing my case and you yours, but it's still subjective and I like this new gamechange.
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#296 - 2013-11-01 17:51:58 UTC
I have a feeling this pizza guy doesn't pvp much, honestly missing the point for this long is just terrible.

Your idea of just smartbomb the bubble or bomb the bubble or anything along those lines is a mechanic that already exists and is used. That doesn't change the fact that right now you at least have a chance to warp your fleet away before you have to take extreme measures (bombs/smartbombs) to clear the bubble off of you. Post rubicon you will not be left with an option of warping away.

The new dictor will appear on grid and you will be bubbled before anyone can press warp. Then a 6-9 au/s hictor will land and light a cyno. You aren't gonna be bombing that guy away, and you will be stuck in a bubble as the enemy fleet bridges in and rapes you in the face. And wanna know whose ticker will be on that fleet, it will be PL and Shadow Cartel and other "elite" pvp alliance. They will exploit it to the fullest possible extent, while people like you will be writing walls of text on the forums about how you got bubbled by an invisible dictor, who then proceeded to instantly cloak before any of you could even figure out where he was.

This does not prevent any of the currect game mechanics from working, you can bomb, smartbomb, burn out of the bubble (that works well in plated bs btw). But at what cost? Half your fleet is dead? 3/4 of the fleet? Sure some of you will get out, but the situation is such that it is a fight that you CANNOT take and that you will almost always run away from. Here the simply option of running away is not there. Yes I like fights more than just about anyone around. Right now if my enemy is capable of clearing the field before a superior force can land on him, good for him. If not then good for me. This change entirely takes away the ability of the opposing party to get out before i land on top of him.

Case and point snipe tornadoes. If you ask me it's one of the most cowardly fleet concept out there. They are fast, hard to catch, warp off before anything warps on them. Well, their ability to warp away is now gone. They are bubbled with a fleet landing at 0 on them. Sure they are fast and will get out of those bubbles and probably most of them will survive, but in the 20-30s it takes them to get out of the bubbles they will lose people who would've otherwise lived.
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#297 - 2013-11-01 18:03:33 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
Words (not sure if tears?)


So what you are saying is that with these new changes the following will happen:

a) People will have a harder time running away

b) "cowardly fleet concepts" (your own words) gets nerfed

c) More ships will die


I really don't see the problem.
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#298 - 2013-11-01 18:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Giullare
Montami wrote:
Giullare wrote:
You pizza guy missing the whole part where is explained that even sniper muninn or other subcapitals fleet can be bubbled by " not yet in overview " dictor.

But this isn't a broken mechanics for sure.


You either:

a) Smartbomb the bubble off (if dictor @ 0)
b) Bomb the bubble off (if dictor @ range and now dead due to **** muninns)
c) defensive bubble your fleet to prevent warp-ins




A)
Are you kidding me? i've a sniper muninn or zealot or legion or tengu fleet where the f-uck are smartbombs?
20km range dictor bubble, have you any notion of space dimensions? you can't be serious to tell me to smarbomb a bubble in a 10-100 man gang occupying a 30km sphere in space

B)
Again, where the f-uck are bombs in such fleet? Bomb needs travel time to explode assuming it can reach bubble, during that time dictor can light cyno or its fleet waiting 200km away can warp on you, no one care if the bubble or the dictor die later to the bomb.

C)
You can't bubble all celestial's directions to your fleet assuming the " ghost dictor " can warp to you from sun, gates, 1-12 planets, safespot in direction of nothing.

So pizza, you are just full of **** and going around with a bomber launching a single bomb to other fleets fighting just to appear on killmails list doesn't prove you understand pvp or doctrines.
Montami
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#299 - 2013-11-01 19:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Montami
Giullare wrote:

A)
Are you kidding me? i've a sniper muninn or zealot or legion or tengu fleet where the f-uck are smartbombs?
20km range dictor bubble, have you any notion of space dimensions? you can't be serious to tell me to smarbomb a bubble in a 10-100 man gang occupying a 30km sphere in space



Exhibit A: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20257883
I didn't mention zealots, nor tengus. But recently some ahac fleets have celisti' with smartbombs in high, and I said at zero. Please try the comprehension skillbook, it can be found in most Academy starter systems.

Giullare wrote:


B)
Again, where the f-uck are bombs in such fleet? Bomb needs travel time to explode assuming it can reach bubble, during that time dictor can light cyno or its fleet waiting 200km away can warp on you, no one care if the bubble or the dictor die later to the bomb.



One pilot in your fleet in a bomber launches his bomb as soon as he sees his fleet bubbled. 10 seconds later the dictor is dead, the bubble is down and presumably "that fleet that is waiting 200 km out" is landing 20 km off your fleet due to the previously located bubble and your fleet is warping out because it is not being tackled.

Giullare wrote:


C)
You can't bubble all celestial's directions to your fleet assuming the " ghost dictor " can warp to you from sun, gates, 1-12 planets, safespot in direction of nothing.



You don't have to bubble every direction to be safe, it won't work either. But it was one way to deal with it.
Geez, no need to get so worked up about this. You ever tried meditation?
Montami
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#300 - 2013-11-01 19:47:19 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
Awesome scenarios listed here


Yep, it sounds awesome doesn't it? Lots of fighting, less chances of extraction. You have a fleet and you have it somewhere in nullsec your ability to extract and GTFO is now way minimized.

It's a great change.