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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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Author
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#561 - 2013-11-05 17:40:09 UTC
Moonaura wrote:
CCP Fozzie, I wouldn't mind you not giving so many Caldari ships, like the flycatch a resistance bonus, when their Amarr equivalent do, if you fixed the blatant issue of a faction invul costing 350m. The reason shield faction parts are so expensive -typically twice that of armor modules, is that the number of factions dropping shield tanking parts are quite literally - half that of factions dropping armor modules, thus the costs. In the next expansion as part of the rebalancing, can we have more factions dropping shield tanking modules please?

Traditionally speaking, Caldari have been to shields tanking, what amarr are to armor tanking. You can't ignore that to get similar buffer numbers a flycatchers signature will be far larger than the heretics, and therefore as a fleet fit support ship, it is far poorer, its not like mass from plates makes quite the same difference anymore.


Caldari are the kiting race now.
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#562 - 2013-11-05 19:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonaura
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Moonaura wrote:
CCP Fozzie, I wouldn't mind you not giving so many Caldari ships, like the flycatch a resistance bonus, when their Amarr equivalent do, if you fixed the blatant issue of a faction invul costing 350m. The reason shield faction parts are so expensive -typically twice that of armor modules, is that the number of factions dropping shield tanking parts are quite literally - half that of factions dropping armor modules, thus the costs. In the next expansion as part of the rebalancing, can we have more factions dropping shield tanking modules please?

Traditionally speaking, Caldari have been to shields tanking, what amarr are to armor tanking. You can't ignore that to get similar buffer numbers a flycatchers signature will be far larger than the heretics, and therefore as a fleet fit support ship, it is far poorer, its not like mass from plates makes quite the same difference anymore.


Caldari are the kiting race now.


Somebody better let the minmitar know. For solo or small gangs perhaps kiting is fine, but once you get into anything involving Logistics and brawling, kiting isn't worth anything. The Vulture bonuses were also laughable given its role compared to the Damnation.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Resi Kaae
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#563 - 2013-11-06 11:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Resi Kaae
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One more tweak to agility and mass. Slows down the Heretic slightly while using a prop mod, and brings their agility into a bit of a more balanced place relative to their combat competition like AFs.

Heretic:
Mass: 1305000 (+25000)
Agility: 3.7 (+0.13)

Flycatcher:
Agility: 3.6 (+0.2)

Eris:
Agility: 3.7 (+0.18)

Sabre:
Agility: 3.7 (+0.17)


Doesn't quite go far enough, imo, but I'm glad you see the manoeuvrability as a potential problem in certain environments and will iterate upon them if they're combat ability in solo/small gang is too much.

edit: although with the recent warp update - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3831182#post3831182 - AF's and Interdictors now have the same warp speed which evens up the fight when trying to escape/catch them/space dance.
Iku'turso
Perkone
Caldari State
#564 - 2013-11-06 23:21:10 UTC
Any chance of changing the Flycatcher's kinetic damage bonus? I thought Caldari ships were supposed to be moving away from it; a lesser bonus (like 5%) for all missile damage or a rate of fire bonus instead would make the ship much more flexible. I was thinking of using it for some high sec work on an alt but the kinetic only damage really hurts.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#565 - 2013-11-06 23:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Missile boats that aren't locked into kinetic damage is more of a Minmatar and to some extent an Amarr T2 thing. The trade off is that they don't generally do as much raw DPS as the equivalent Caldari kinetic missile boat. Although the Raven and Navy Drake do stand out as notable exceptions.

Besides, its not like damage types matter all that much in PvP anyway as everyone more or less omni tanks their ships. You weren't going to use an interdictor for PvE were you?
Iku'turso
Perkone
Caldari State
#566 - 2013-11-07 00:15:11 UTC
The rebalanced interdictors make pretty decent high sec explorers. A decent slot layout combined with t2 resists and small sig, they will outperform assault frigates in high sec DED sites. The kinetic damage bonus isn't a huge problem except on one particular plex where the overseer has 80% kinetic resists and the Flycatcher simply can't break it's tank without using another damage type (and even then only barely).

I realize interdictors have traditionally been PVP only ships, but as they stand on Sisi they can definitely fill a (albeit niche) role for PVE.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#567 - 2013-11-07 13:06:37 UTC
Iku'turso wrote:
The rebalanced interdictors make pretty decent high sec explorers. A decent slot layout combined with t2 resists and small sig, they will outperform assault frigates in high sec DED sites. The kinetic damage bonus isn't a huge problem except on one particular plex where the overseer has 80% kinetic resists and the Flycatcher simply can't break it's tank without using another damage type (and even then only barely).

I realize interdictors have traditionally been PVP only ships, but as they stand on Sisi they can definitely fill a (albeit niche) role for PVE.


Um, bring a rack or two of a different damage type? Seriously, if only "one particular plex" is the problem, and you already have the solution...

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#568 - 2013-11-07 13:51:51 UTC
Have flown these for a while, if the player skills are a major factor to decently pilot/use these pesky little things, their survivability on the other hand is pretty awful and can quickly burn 99% players trying this specific game play very hard to master.

I'll miss the double bubble paper tank dictor only because of the double bubble, never because of it's tank.

This new 3 bubble clip with a 60sec reload timer makes it a bit "weird", increase it up to 5 clip wouldn't hurt even if these won in tank it only profits in smaller/solo engagements, in big fights these are still the main target of anti support wings and will pop easily after spewing their 3 bble stuff.
The 5 clip change would actually help them jump in, pop a bble or two while running OH for their life, eventually manage to gtfo and drop again for another bble run before the 60sec timer.

With the 3 bble clip, despite the obvious tank reinforcement but also the agility/mass nerf, it will only require more Dictors but their survivability will still be the same in big fights (because of alpha) and thats why its rather hard to get pilots doing it, it's such an interesting role but also such a fast ticket home you guys need to actually get another approach of it imho.

Again, adding or increasing their firepower is ok for small/solo engagements, in big fights? - the guy better fit another extender or hardeners instead (I don't fit a single gun in my latest ones because worthless)
There are two support ships that don't need a single firepower unit: logistics and light dictors. They need speed, agility, tank and rep/bble power.

Logistics are ok, hell a bit more than just ok, we can safely say those are pretty close to op even.
Light dictors, but it's just my opinion, could use of extra tank/tackle/ewar slots instead of firepower, just remove completely all guns and let them use cover ops cloak (only light dictors) with 5 sec targeting delay cause they don't need it anyway, their job is to poop bbles but poop them wisely, not to bring 250 miserable dps on the table for the best of them in this department (Sabre).
Also, the covert ops cloaking ability in exchange of fire power would make this role so much more interesting and pesky to deal with then just drop arty canes/SFI (+10% tracking p/lvl) .
A bit like the Bomber, pesky dumbass thing it's either too late when you see it or just another KM if the guys does it wrong (and uncloak/bble will still leave it a few sec inside his own bble, so not OP at all)

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#569 - 2013-11-07 13:58:51 UTC
more tank less gank comes to mind here... i.e. remove some highs for tanking slots and buff HP further..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#570 - 2013-11-08 12:45:48 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
more tank less gank comes to mind here... i.e. remove some highs for tanking slots and buff HP further..

You mean a Hictor?
xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#571 - 2013-11-08 17:15:49 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
more tank less gank comes to mind here... i.e. remove some highs for tanking slots and buff HP further..

You mean a Hictor?


Buffing a ship to not die in one volley does not make it a hictor.


If the Heretic is getting armour resist bonuses, the rest should get comparable resist, hp or sig radius bonuses.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#572 - 2013-11-08 17:23:12 UTC
xttz wrote:
If the Heretic is getting armour resist bonuses, the rest should get comparable resist, hp or sig radius bonuses.

Or maybe a speed/mass bonus? Wait...
Romar Thel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#573 - 2013-11-11 19:47:02 UTC
Nice boost although sabre is getting somehow slower...

Only thing is that this bubble... can stop less ships with the new interceptor bonus.
Case Hakuli
Rat Collection Agency
#574 - 2013-11-13 15:21:30 UTC
MWD sig bonus should be a role bonus / second interdictor skill bonus should be a combat bonus
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#575 - 2013-11-14 13:48:15 UTC
Gave my flycatcher a test drive on Singularity last night.

Drooooool.....

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫

ilammy
Brave Collective
#576 - 2013-11-16 22:17:05 UTC
I don't see any mention of Bubbal Launcher in the latest patchnotes. Is it left unchanged? Or just forgotten?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#577 - 2013-11-18 09:23:23 UTC
ilammy wrote:
I don't see any mention of Bubbal Launcher in the latest patchnotes. Is it left unchanged? Or just forgotten?


Missed from that version of the patchnotes. I'll get it corrected.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Bill Saisima
Doomheim
#578 - 2013-11-19 19:24:54 UTC
Downloading the patch... ah well apparently i missed some info among the myriads of uninteresting changes.
I already knew the sabre is getting nerfed but a general dictor nerf, that radical, wow, that really blows.
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#579 - 2013-11-20 07:25:09 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
xttz wrote:
If the Heretic is getting armour resist bonuses, the rest should get comparable resist, hp or sig radius bonuses.

Or maybe a speed/mass bonus? Wait...


the heretic is dead with this patch. not enough CPU or power grid, if you would like put the light missile launcher.

With the slot 3 medium 3 low. you can't make dps.

You have a bonus on armor bonus but with only three low you are not better than eris (less dps tanking, the sig is a little better).

This dictor is not balanced.
whaynethepain
#580 - 2013-11-22 07:55:47 UTC
Dunno, I think interceptor bubble immunity is wtfbppop overpowered, and not really role related or that necessary because of speed and agility.

I think Interdictior bubble immunity is very befitting of role and would give survivability as well as an interesting new dynamic to the game.

I imagine a spider caught in it's own web, and the gnat just flying on through, wtfbpop indeed.

Anyhow, yup Eve Online is still going strong, brilliant new update, told all my mates at work about the new expansion, happy days.

Best of luck for the future

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.