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T2 Ammo Changes
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Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#1 - 2011-11-01 18:39:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kush Monster
Was reading the devblog when I read they will be upgrading the underpowered t2 ammo types.


Here are the changes they proposed:
Quote:

Javelin (all sizes): Removed cap penalty
Javelin, Gleam and Quake (all sizes): Removed tracking speed penalty, added 25% tracking speed bonus
Hail (all sizes): Removed falloff penalty


My question is does this mean Hail will become a viable ammo type? I did a quick look at it and it looks like if they remove the falloff penalty completely it would be a viable alternative to barrage.

What do you guys think?

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-11-01 19:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
It's possible. It looks like going from Barrage to Hail, after the patch, will amount to trading 1/3 your falloff and 1/2 your optimal for a ~33% damage boost (actually, it's doubling your Exp damage and dropping your Kin damage by 1/3 too, so it changes the damage profile somewhat, from about 0/0/45/55 to more like 0/0/22/78).

Edit: Once you look at RF fusion though, it becomes a bit less appealing. It amounts to something like a 10-15% damage boost with 30% less tracking compared to RF fusion. Given the different costs of the ammo, it might still be more effective to use RF fusion instead of Hail, since there's little difference in performance.
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#3 - 2011-11-01 19:51:51 UTC
Hail will finally be viable, but not an alternative to barrage. They are for different situations. Hail is the up close high damage ammo while Barrage remains the long range option.

Hail is an alternative to faction short range ammo as mxzf says. It should be similar to the difference between Conflag and faction multifrequency for lasers or Void and faction antimatter for blasters if they do it right.
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-11-02 06:19:18 UTC
Will RF EMP still have a place after this change?
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#5 - 2011-11-02 15:01:35 UTC
The problem with hail has always been the falloff penalty. Conflag has it too of course, but since pulse lasers are nearly all optimal, it doesn't matter. You end up with conflag only having slightly shorter range than MF. The only real difference is tracking speed. Hail however has roughly half the overall range of RF Fusion/EMP/PP because of the falloff penalty in addition to the largely irrelevant optimal penalty. I expect it will become a viable ammo type after the change, but I also think RF PP will remain the standard due to the inherent advantage of dealing thermal damage in virtually all situations.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-02 15:25:39 UTC
well. to my rogue drone 10/10 escalation this patch will make something very good Big smile
10-15% of DPS + moving damage spectre to Explosive is a very good gift while tracking isn't important for shooting drone mother.

Do the same for T2 crystals and i will have like 5-10% less time for 1 escalation =)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Meltmind2
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-11-02 15:50:43 UTC
Hail is already viable (if you're shooting caps), falloff penalty removed is a nice bonus imo.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#8 - 2011-11-02 17:07:58 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
The problem with hail has always been the falloff penalty. Conflag has it too of course, but since pulse lasers are nearly all optimal, it doesn't matter. You end up with conflag only having slightly shorter range than MF. The only real difference is tracking speed. Hail however has roughly half the overall range of RF Fusion/EMP/PP because of the falloff penalty in addition to the largely irrelevant optimal penalty. I expect it will become a viable ammo type after the change, but I also think RF PP will remain the standard due to the inherent advantage of dealing thermal damage in virtually all situations.

Isn't conflaguration penalty on optimal? EFT says so. This hail modification is another b******* boost for Winmatar.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Conflagration_S

Please either get rid of this boost or boost the other corresonding ammos.
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#9 - 2011-11-02 20:02:39 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
King Rothgar wrote:
The problem with hail has always been the falloff penalty. Conflag has it too of course, but since pulse lasers are nearly all optimal, it doesn't matter.....

Isn't conflaguration penalty on optimal? .....
Please either get rid of this boost or boost the other corresonding ammos.

The penalty is to optimal, but it is exactly the same penalty that multifrequency has, so conflag has exactly the same range as short range laser ammo.

The other short range T2 ammos don't need a boost, they were already useful. Hail was (almost) completely useless before this and now will have similar utility to other short range T2 ammos.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#10 - 2011-11-02 20:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
JackStraw56 wrote:
The other short range T2 ammos don't need a boost, they were already useful. Hail was (almost) completely useless before this and now will have similar utility to other short range T2 ammos.

It didn't provide more damage to larger targets if you were able to get under their guns? Because that's the only thing Void is good for.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-02 20:39:52 UTC
Seems like Tallest changed his mind on Hail.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-11-03 08:30:18 UTC
Hail becomes beastly against Angels whigh projectiles already beat easilly. Now vs. Omni tank they become an entirely different story..... (buh bye NM.)

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#13 - 2011-11-03 16:20:26 UTC
JitaJane wrote:
Hail becomes beastly against Angels whigh projectiles already beat easilly. Now vs. Omni tank they become an entirely different story..... (buh bye NM.)


Do people actually fly a NM in pvp? I never seen one on the field.

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
ImmutableDark
Absalom.
#14 - 2011-11-04 02:35:04 UTC
It doesn't surprise me at all that they didn't touch the explosion radius of torps. CCP always ALWAYS neglects Caldari PVP they don't give a **** about it.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-11-04 03:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkAegix
Gallente underpowered? Minmatar overpowered?
Buff Hail.

I never understand CCP P
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#16 - 2011-11-04 13:57:12 UTC
ImmutableDark wrote:
It doesn't surprise me at all that they didn't touch the explosion radius of torps. CCP always ALWAYS neglects Caldari PVP they don't give a **** about it.


you're joking right? so you would like to pop frigs pointing you with torps LOL.