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The Quadruple nerf of Marauders
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Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#41 - 2013-10-22 20:07:29 UTC
Xercodo wrote:


But now with the 25 m3 drone bay I can't do that, the space HAS to goto the hobgobs.


No Marauder at any point only had 25m3 worth of drone bay. The lowest so far has been 50 and that has since been raised to 75m3.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#42 - 2013-10-22 20:49:58 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
So having flown both a paladin and a vargur I'm very looking forward to bastion mode.

1) Drones are fine, I'm gonna go ahead and run Worlds Collide and use dones and not lose a single one. pfffft

2) I don't care THAT much but if you're using a marauder for missions you have a 50/50 chance of being a bling fit kind of guy. How about you go and get that Ascendancy set?

3) Never fit a web anyway, if I let anything get under 10km besides maybe a frigate or two I did something wrong anyway

4) 60 seconds is nothing, quit yer bitching


Dinsdale is an incursioner, not a missioner. He's also more rabid and frothy-mouthed than usual, so whatever you do try not to make direct eye contact.

The best thing for you to do is just perma-dec his corp.


Actually, I make my money 3 ways:

Incursions, which I run less and less, and will run even more less after the destruction of the Marauder.
Low sec exploration, which will likely become my main money maker
Missions, which are mind-numbing after doing the same ones 1000 times (yes Inc's are the same concept, but at least I am doing them with others).

So do all the personal attacks you like.

It does not take away from the fact that the Bastion module will not be used by Incursion runners, and it is a joke in missions as well, since the Marauders already could easily tank missions. The nerf to the drone bay, the loss of the webs to the armour Marauders, and the overall loss of mobility to the entire class far far outweighs any potential benefit to extended optimal and fall-off.
Vince Mctavern
Anara Sol
#43 - 2013-10-23 02:50:10 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
But now with the 25 m3 drone bay I can't do that, the space HAS to goto the hobgobs.

So now what'll do is bring the new auto tractor looting module, drop it early into a mission room, and fit myself with 3 salvagers instead. :P

It dropped to 25mb/s bandwidth, not capacity. So if like me you only use light drones and salvage drones, nothing changes on the drone front.
Vince Mctavern
Anara Sol
#44 - 2013-10-23 03:14:06 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It does not take away from the fact that the Bastion module will not be used by Incursion runners, and it is a joke in missions as well, since the Marauders already could easily tank missions. The nerf to the drone bay, the loss of the webs to the armour Marauders, and the overall loss of mobility to the entire class far far outweighs any potential benefit to extended optimal and fall-off.

With regard to the Bastion module being bad for missions, I have to disagree. The ewar immunity is a huge benefit for many mission situations (particularly Guristas and Serpentis) since we now have no more downtime due to jamming, sensor dampening or tracking disruption. Do not underestimate how powerful this bonus is.

The extra range means I can hit to around 100km with Scorch on a Paladin, and even with Imperial Navy crystals the extra range translates to a damage buff. I'm hitting those pesky battleships that orbit at 50km harder, as well as killing things quicker before they get under my guns. The weapons timer on the Bastion module is irrelevant outside of low/null since 1 minute is easily mitigated by proactively managing Bastion mode when I need it (hint: you don't need it after the main dps and ewar have been killed since everything's in range anyway) and the slightly longer warp times.

With the Bastion (as it currently stands) I could fit other things I wouldn't normally have such as (more) sensor boosters, more tracking mods, nano mods (I've been trying MWD instead of MJD so I'm still toying with this), TPs (to manage drone aggro), etc. It's still early days so figuring out the best configuration for my needs is still ongoing but it's definitely opened up some new fitting possibilities and I can only see a benefit to the ship as I'm using it.

The webs, as have been mentioned before, were totally useless for mission running, and very few people actually used them for this. Losing them was barely noticeable (though I can understand their use in Incursions and PvP).

This is all just from my own testing and experimentation obviously, so people will disagree. But from a mission runner's perspective who's done quite a few missions on Sisi with the new Bastion Paladin so far, it gets my thumbs up on every point.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#45 - 2013-10-23 07:05:24 UTC
Oh good, I hadn't really kept up with all the iterations they've done.

Either way I like the idea of using the auto looter and just queuing up 3-4 salvagers in my util highs :D

What I wanna do in bastion mode is **** things up with gleam lasers muhahah

The Drake is a Lie
Robbie Robot
Exiled Kings
Pain And Compliance
#46 - 2013-10-24 23:26:22 UTC
Vince Mctavern wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It does not take away from the fact that the Bastion module will not be used by Incursion runners, and it is a joke in missions as well, since the Marauders already could easily tank missions. The nerf to the drone bay, the loss of the webs to the armour Marauders, and the overall loss of mobility to the entire class far far outweighs any potential benefit to extended optimal and fall-off.

With regard to the Bastion module being bad for missions, I have to disagree. The ewar immunity is a huge benefit for many mission situations (particularly Guristas and Serpentis) since we now have no more downtime due to jamming, sensor dampening or tracking disruption. Do not underestimate how powerful this bonus is.

The extra range means I can hit to around 100km with Scorch on a Paladin, and even with Imperial Navy crystals the extra range translates to a damage buff. I'm hitting those pesky battleships that orbit at 50km harder, as well as killing things quicker before they get under my guns. The weapons timer on the Bastion module is irrelevant outside of low/null since 1 minute is easily mitigated by proactively managing Bastion mode when I need it (hint: you don't need it after the main dps and ewar have been killed since everything's in range anyway) and the slightly longer warp times.

With the Bastion (as it currently stands) I could fit other things I wouldn't normally have such as (more) sensor boosters, more tracking mods, nano mods (I've been trying MWD instead of MJD so I'm still toying with this), TPs (to manage drone aggro), etc. It's still early days so figuring out the best configuration for my needs is still ongoing but it's definitely opened up some new fitting possibilities and I can only see a benefit to the ship as I'm using it.

The webs, as have been mentioned before, were totally useless for mission running, and very few people actually used them for this. Losing them was barely noticeable (though I can understand their use in Incursions and PvP).

This is all just from my own testing and experimentation obviously, so people will disagree. But from a mission runner's perspective who's done quite a few missions on Sisi with the new Bastion Paladin so far, it gets my thumbs up on every point.

This has been my experience too. You can put a target painter on a paladin or kronos now to alpha frigs with guns, or just increase the DPS of your drones. With bastion in missions, you can probably get away with using only one hardener (since you get +30% resissts, AND +100% armor rep), and either put on another damage module for either your guns (you have 4 on already, right?) , or your light drones so those pesky mission frigates die ~26% faster. For example, on my paladin, on TQ now to be cap stable I need one CPR on the low. The SiSi paladin has more cap, and doesn't require the CPR on the low. That means my paladin will have two more lows to do things with, and on TQ it has 1 armor rep, two hardeners, 1 CPR, and 3 heat sinks. SiSi has 1 armor rep, one hardener, 4 heatsinks, and a CPR (just so I can MJD or MWD around easier). The mids I had a MWD, a cap recharger and two TC. so, I can fit 3 TC's, or I can add a target paitner, sensor boosters, whatever I want. I could even have a MWD and a MJD, and two TCII's.

For incursions, you can have more than one person bring a federation web, then have an off grid booster that increases web range. I'd also like to mention that it is possible to do incursions without a paladin or kronos. If you really need it still, I hear the Vindicator isn't being nerfed, and they are about the same price as a armor marauder.

For PvP, just try and take down a dual ASB vargur before it can deagress and jump through a gate (1v1 any non capital). It can hold 46 charges too.
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