These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Creatures that extract tears - An in-depth analysis

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#61 - 2013-10-14 12:59:24 UTC
Even our RL military soldiers are vulnerable to anthropomorphization and empathizing with machines.

In fact, it's becoming a combat issue:

Empathy for military robots could affect outcomes on the battlefield

Soldiers are starting to feel empathy for their military robots

These behaviors have been ingrained in humanity for time immemorial and are highly unlikely to change anytime soon.

Everyone is a little crazy in some way. It's human nature.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-10-14 13:00:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Tandros Kreel wrote:
Maliandra wrote:
*snip*


Now show us where the bad pirate touched you....


This ^

He hurt me in ways I can't talk about... It was horrible!


*sniff* The pirate... put his torpedo in my resist hole...


I'm sorry he did this to you as well. Even though I was podded I can still feel the pain in my new body. There must be a way to stop this. What's worse is he's still doing horrible things to my corpse... I begged him to give it back but he won't!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#63 - 2013-10-14 13:01:38 UTC


Is it not selfish of the "victim" to make the assumption


That the act of space-violence committed


Upon them is specifically to extract their tears?



When the position is put forward that space-criminals perpetrate acts of space-violence, that the only purpose


Is to harvest tears?





Perhaps they just happened to be chosen because they made themselves the easiest




Target

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#64 - 2013-10-14 13:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
Wow, lots of people can't differentiate between a GAME and actual stuff that has value e.g National Monuments etc.
l



whut


No, for real. Some crazed individual compared destroying his mining barge to vandalizing Picasso's Guernica and blowing up Mount Rushmore.

Talk about your disassociation issues.



"Crazed Individual Here !!"

You learned nothing in school I guess of using comparative examples as demonstration.

To say "equal circumstance" was even implied shows you know absolutely nothing about true argumentative techniques, AT ALL.

But have fun with your trolling nonsense, as that's all it will ever be.

Now, maybe if I opened fire with an assault rifle in a movie theater, yes, then I may indeed be a crazed individual.

Your perceptive and descriptive scale of things is just all wrong.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#65 - 2013-10-14 13:03:38 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:


Is it not selfish of the "victim" to make the assumption


That the act of space-violence committed


Upon them is specifically to extract their tears?



When the position is put forward that space-criminals perpetrate acts of space-violence, that the only purpose


Is to harvest tears?





Perhaps they just happened to be chosen because they made themselves the easiest




Target



Is this a GD posting or an e.e. cummings poem ? Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#66 - 2013-10-14 13:22:37 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


"Crazed Individual Here !!"

You learned nothing in school I guess of using comparative examples as demonstration.

To say "equal circumstance" was even implied shows you know absolutely nothing about true argumentative techniques, AT ALL.

But have fun with your trolling nonsense, as that's all it will ever be.

Now, maybe if I opened fire with an assault rifle in a movie theater, yes, then I may indeed be a crazed individual.

Your perceptive and descriptive scale of things is just all wrong.


I suppose you learned nothing in school about the concept of "orders of magnitude". Destruction of a digital possession that is not only easily replaced, but exists solely in a game where it's destruction is a perfectly acceptable act, does not equate to dynamiting Mount Rushmore, which is both a national monument, and an irreplaceable work of art.

To say that it does is the worst kind of overblown, knee jerk, emotional nonsense.

Not only does it not matter that much to you unless you are obscenely mentally deranged, it certainly does not matter enough to anyone else on the face of this earth that a mining barge got blown up.

And I did say crazed, not violent. They are two different things. My great aunt Zelda is crazed, but all she does is cross stitch pictures of golf equipment, not shoot up theaters. Again with the hyperbole.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#67 - 2013-10-14 13:24:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mount Rushmore, which is both a irrational monument, and an inexplicable work o fart.




Repeat all after "incinerators"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#68 - 2013-10-14 13:46:01 UTC
Space pixels, you play it.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2013-10-14 15:17:21 UTC
I find that using my Avatar as a crash test dummy allows me to make for a better seat belt (socially).

That's why these forums are so great.

But for those who desire to see people fail and fail, it is beyond me to design gameplay around that (although I accept sometimes bad things just happen).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-10-14 15:26:28 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
There is something sad about players that take a game so seriously they cry, rage, and hate--for real--over actions that take place over the normal course of game play.

Tear extractors aren't the sad ones. They are the ones that remind everyone we are playing a game. That when we die, it is not real. When we lose money, we aren't losing real money. They are just the ones laughing when another player makes a bad play.

It was a tear extractor that taught me to truly enjoy eve. When my ship was turned to dust around me and I got a free trip back to station. I was going to tell this guy EXACTLY how I felt. I was so mad. So I opened up his profile and found.....

A form letter!

A form letter? Did this guy get so much hate that he had a form letter in his profile? I reassessed my whole attitude. And I did send him a message. But instead of raging like he expected, I talked to him normally asking what I did wrong and how I could improve my game.

He was totally helpful and not a jerk at all. That was back in revelations, so long ago that I don't have a killmail for it, but I wish I did, so I could give that guy the credit he deserves.

So no, I don't think tear extractors are sad at all. They are polite and fun people, you just have to treat them right. Although, they will still kill you if you give them half a chance.



I dunno about all that, generally those "tear extractors" are in fact needing to vent "something".

Not up to me as to guess what, but you have to put effort into something like that. Tear extracting is not random acts of violence, like being opportunistic, but an act with a desired result.

Since this game does in fact prey on actual loss and not an infinite respawn (you lose your ship, have to pay up your clone etc) you will in fact assign a value to your player, be it socially, invested or monetarily.

Well, I'll stop going down this path and just add that plenty of psychology majors have based numerous papers on the comparison of real world value versus virtual reality to not be able to dismiss it out of hand.

In short, be careful when you poke that bear.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#71 - 2013-10-14 15:29:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Not only does it not matter that much to you unless you are obscenely mentally deranged, it certainly does not matter enough to anyone else on the face of this earth that a mining barge got blown up.



Matters to me.







More barges that get blown up, more I sell.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-10-14 15:31:17 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Lightspeed Champion wrote:

For this to make any sense the person I mentioned would have had to think pixels can feel pain...

Pixels can't feel pain.

BTW, I once threw grenades into the 'wedding-scene-on-the-boat' in Fallout 3 just to see what happened. The pixels that represented children didn't become pixel corpses, so I shot them for a bit. It's almost like I knew they weren't real...



When "Guernica" was defaced by vandals initially, I'm sure Picasso didn't actually feel any real 'pain' from it as nerve endings don't connect an artist to their work (Annie Sprinkle excepted).

But does that make it OK to do ? Does it really matter ? I mean, "Guernica" is essentially just a buncha paint on a fabric base not scientifically distinguishable from a blank painted bedroom wall.

Your arguments are basically saying these bad behaviors are justified as there is no 'real' body connection to any of it.

That's a very dangerous way to think ultimately.





My kids cries from me throwing away a crayon drawn picture taught me a valuable lesson.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2013-10-14 15:44:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Scarlett Wesson wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
When we lose money, we aren't losing real money.


Yeah, right. We can't possibly get IG money by paying RL cash. And we can't lose the time invested in creating something in the game either.

The fact that it happens in a video game doesn't excuse being happy when other people feel miserable. This is not the character that is miserable, but the player, a humain being, just like you and me. Being an ass can't be justified, no matter the circumstances.


No, but it does completely excuse being happy because you win at a videogame. I win, you lose. Apparently that is supremely upsetting to the entitlement generation.

And being an ass is entirely justified given some of the things I have seen people say to gankers. Ever hear of the "highsec miner grab bag"? It's the New Order's weekly collection of death threats, terms-of-service-breaking insults, and vile language used against them by the various miner populations. There is some stuff in there that justifies anything they do (in game, of course) to someone who says them.

I'll go ahead and tell you this. It is 100% ok to take a jab at someone who flips out about losing a ship. Because it borders on absurdity to be that upset at losing a ship in a video game.



You have to admit though, Agents are being obtuse with their communication (unless they truly are that devout) specifically to "milk" tears.

I know, I used to be an Agent (still am when in highsec I suppose) and support what they do for emergent gameplay and all that.

But I do not have the taste for frustration.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2013-10-14 15:46:43 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


When "Guernica" was defaced by vandals initially, I'm sure Picasso didn't actually feel any real 'pain' from it as nerve endings don't connect an artist to their work (Annie Sprinkle excepted).

But does that make it OK to do ? Does it really matter ? I mean, "Guernica" is essentially just a buncha paint on a fabric base not scientifically distinguishable from a blank painted bedroom wall.

Your arguments are basically saying these bad behaviors are justified as there is no 'real' body connection to any of it.

That's a very dangerous way to think ultimately.




Did you just compare an irreplaceable object with an object that is unlimited?

So, you lose your internet spaceship....guess what, the market is full of identical hulls which are indistinguishable from the one you owned. It is also full of identical guns.


Sure, we all avoid doing bad things in games, we never shoot rats, we never kill 100 boars, or 100 [insert bad guy race here], we never shoot anyone in PvP, because, you know, it is exactly the same as doing it in real life.

The questions which need to be asked are, why is it the people who get ripped off (usually because they think they are ripping the other guy off.. "LOL, that idiot has a plex up for 6m isk..idiot!"), are the ones who feel the need to explode, often spilling over to RL threats....now, if, according to some, we are meant to take ingame actions as a character reference, then damn, I would avoid those guys like crazy.



Humans are generally bad at doing anything in moderation =(

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2013-10-14 15:50:12 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Scarlett Wesson wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
When we lose money, we aren't losing real money.


Yeah, right. We can't possibly get IG money by paying RL cash. And we can't lose the time invested in creating something in the game either.

The fact that it happens in a video game doesn't excuse being happy when other people feel miserable. This is not the character that is miserable, but the player, a humain being, just like you and me. Being an ass can't be justified, no matter the circumstances.


But can you get cash for IG money? No it is not a bilateral transaction. Any money spent is already lost. Any time spent is already gone.

Seriously, when a child freaks out over something that doesn't matter like it is the end of the world, all the adults laugh. It's not because adults are mean jerks, it is because adults have a healthier perspective. When those adults keep putting a child in this situation, they are hoping to teach the child a better perspective.

Some kids never learn.



Wall Street begs to differ =P

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-10-14 15:54:30 UTC
Whatever floats your boat OP

My boat floats on a sea of tears Big smile
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-10-14 15:58:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Scarlett Wesson wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
When we lose money, we aren't losing real money.


Yeah, right. We can't possibly get IG money by paying RL cash. And we can't lose the time invested in creating something in the game either.

The fact that it happens in a video game doesn't excuse being happy when other people feel miserable. This is not the character that is miserable, but the player, a humain being, just like you and me. Being an ass can't be justified, no matter the circumstances.


So I see you've never ever played a real life sport.

Because when you play a real sport, someone loses. The losers feel bad, which would make you morally reprehensible for being both on the winning team and enjoying the win.



That analogy is probably the closest mentioned in this thread.

I would like to mention that sometimes the winners cry too.

Emotional content at it's finest right?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-10-14 16:01:25 UTC
I don't know how most agents handle these situations. But you can search minerbumping.com for my name and look at any of the convos I've been involved in (search for "Shinhwa", I have two chars in New Order). They are on minerbumping because the miner flipped the frick out and it was funny. But if you look at what I say in those conversations it is almost always respectful and polite. Only with one guy did I get a little short and even then "brusk" would be about all you could say about it. And yet, those convos are on there because some player flipped out over getting a spaceship blown up in a spaceship blowing up game.

I'm not an agent of the New Order to harvest tears. I'm an agent of the New Order to save hisec and maybe even Eve. Don't get me wrong, the tears are great. But the tears are just a funny by-product of the entitlement mentality of the players involved.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#79 - 2013-10-14 16:16:48 UTC
Jim Era wrote:
Violence is never the answer. We should all be friends.

You're quite right. Violence isn't the answer.

Violence is the question, and the answer is YES. Twisted
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#80 - 2013-10-14 17:26:25 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Scarlett Wesson wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
When we lose money, we aren't losing real money.

Yeah, right. We can't possibly get IG money by paying RL cash. And we can't lose the time invested in creating something in the game either.

The fact that it happens in a video game doesn't excuse being happy when other people feel miserable. This is not the character that is miserable, but the player, a humain being, just like you and me. Being an ass can't be justified, no matter the circumstances.


So I see you've never ever played a real life sport.

Because when you play a real sport, someone loses. The losers feel bad, which would make you morally reprehensible for being both on the winning team and enjoying the win.

That analogy is probably the closest mentioned in this thread.

I would like to mention that sometimes the winners cry too.

Emotional content at it's finest right?

After I assigned my drones I started crying...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?